Pesticide foodstuff database

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But if you do, piss with the wind, not into it;O)
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
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wrote:

or wrestle with a group of pigs
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Not responding to anyone in particular in this "debate"\but googling Chemical fertilizer effects on soil microbes brought a lot of interesting stuff (good scientific word: stuff)
For great general information ( and there is a LOT of info here:
www.answers.com/topic/fertilizer
I didn't read much of the blog/opinion sites. There is a great deal of study being done in China. I found these of interest:
www.agnet.org/library/tb/174/
(Combined use of Chemical and Organic Fertilizer and/or Biofertilizer)
also:
www.organiclandcare.org/education/Effects%20%20some%20synthetic%20fertilizers.pdf
Happy researching Emilie] NorCal
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In article

Sometimes what you need most is new eyes. Thanks.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
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sometime in the recent past gunner posted this:

passage cited; quotation. ! 7.     a quotation showing a particular word or phrase in context And I think I can tell that you've probably consumed all the 'safe' residues you can, and should stop eating immediately. Always found it curious that no matter the mountain of evidence, empirical and anecdotal, you will find people fighting tooth and nail to maintain the status quo. I call that 'The Lemming Effect.'
as well as the way you attempt to "bait" someone. You have

http://www.nytimes.com/1994/07/05/science/scientist-at-work-bruce-n-ames-strong-views-on-origins-of-cancer.html?pagewanted=1
--
Wilson N4439" W6712"

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As well, I have to laugh about your use of the word use

Wilson potificates; Glad you had a good giggle over 'citations.' My dictionary includes ! 6. a

How's that dictionary working out for ya. Mr. Wilson? I maintain that you cite a passage or quotation and you reference a source. I also recommend you reread what ya wrote and take it to heart?
The underlying problem with what you wrote is it is just fluff. " I think I can tell that you've probably ". I'm sure it is all well meaning and supportive for your cause, timidly ad hominem for sure, but fluff never the less.
Please note the proviso in 7. a (above) .... "quotation showing a particular word or phrase in context". "In context " being the key words here. Something that is in very short supply on this NG. I think false information and information taken out of context are two of the biggest faults about the Internet, emails and causal writing in general, especially devoid on this NG. These two are so easily spread around and oft cited as fact. Then repeated in other papers as verified fact. I don't mind casual language, yet I still believe there is a danger of using casual language in an informational role. To me it stifles critical thinking skills and fails to check the Bull Shit artist; . i.e. "Chemferts(sic) kill micro organisms."
Such a broad generalization, yet it doesn't answer the basic interrogatives, a meaningless slogan for the cause.
I hope you don't mind using you as an example here since you opened the door. Let us take your comments " you've probably consumed all the 'safe' residues you can, and should stop eating immediately" You see you do not clarify what you are talking about in regards to the "safe" residue and why I should "stop eating immediately" . are you are discussing the EPA or perhaps it is the EU's safe standards . Since the many diverse Organic organizations use the EPA allowable limits. If you recall we found the EPA standards being used by the USDA's AMS is the very same as the pie chart driven "What's On My Plate" site. We can assume the EPA standards, yes? But one should not assume.
BTW, your post would have been a classic "argument from authority" fallacy outlined in Sagan's Fine Art of Boloney Detection if it was referenced. What is "my dictionary" ? A edition of the Oxford English Dictionary perhaps? I would not expect a full pedigree but some reference would have been nice, something as simple as Webster's Jr, High pocket dictionary would have been ok. None of the three I just looked up had what you quoted. But since we do not know what dictionary you used, as my old instructor liked to say, "it don't count for a hill of beans" .
To continue "Always found it curious ........Lemming effect. " Yes, wilson, I find it curious also. There is always such gross generalization applied with the all knowing nod and a wink , rarely anchored in anything of substance. It gives just the right amount of plausible denial for self righteous indignation, that bit of wiggle room for those that fail to recognize their bias, as way to recover with the proviso "that is not what I meant". That is across the board not just your little group. Otherwise, how do I put this... your wording is a way for the timid to feel clever without serious confrontation and having to use factual information.
Here is the original comment " So gunner, make your argument, and present your citations. If you've been to school, you should know how it works".
I don't present a bunch of quotes to support my arguments and I certainly don't cherry pick them to support a particuliarly biased view as practiced here. i.e. observational selection.
I also remain unimpressed with someone listing a large group of links especially when they obvisouly did not read them. One example of a reference link I recall was used to compare conventional fertilizers with organic fertilizers and in just in the first couple of paragraphs the subject scientist was "cited" as saying one should not compare the two. A very incongruent message to send which told me the writer did not do his job very well. Total fluff. Irealize one should not totally discount the argument because of one mistake but the entire post decomposed into the standard, "you don't understand the world like I do" trivial BS. You know the old wise and sage "Father Knows Best" thingie.
So let's keep our "facts" in proper context. A healthy sustainable world is a very good goal, but in a reality check, I doubt seriously that we will go back to the idyllic good old days. Lets learn to use what information we have at hand, not what we think we should have.
I'm still awaiting someone to explain how "Chemferts(sic) kill micro organisms." without all the diversionary doom and gloom tangents.
apostrophes?
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pg. 26 Negative impacts on the soil food web Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off entire_ portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and_ nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at the very foundation of the_ soil food web nutrient system, you have to keep adding fertilizer once you start_ using it regularly. The microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants. It makes sense that once the bacteria, fungi, nematodes, and protozoa are_ gone, other members of the food web disappear as well. Earthworms, for example, lacking food and irritated by the synthetic nitrates in soluble nitrogen_ fertilizers, move out. Since they are major shredders of organic material, their_ absence is a great loss. Without the activity and diversity of a healthy food web, you not only impact the nutrient system but all the other things a healthy soil_ food web brings. Soil structure deteriorates, watering can become problematic,"_ pathogens and pests establish themselves and, worst of all, gardening becomes_ a lot more work than it needs to be.
Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis (Amazon.com product link shortened) /ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid06815176&sr=1-1
Jeff Lowenfelds: EDUCATION: Harvard University, geology; Northeastern University, law
I hope that holds you for the time being. I have important stuff to do, but I'll be back to play with you ;O))
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
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In article

Well shister, were you happy with the answer? It what way does it fall short of your expectations? What else may I explain to that pea size brain of yours, hmmmm?
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
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Finally! Thank you, Billy,that was not hard was it? now I know who to look up and find his bona fides and what actual research he bases his thesis on. I can finally verify this bold comment. So I will check to see if this statement is based on actual research or just opinion.
What else can you do for this peabrain? You can damn well wait until I get back to my computer. I don't spend my life in front of it like you do DS.
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deal with gunny, when you step out of your cloud of acronyms, and innuendoes.
--
cite |s?t|
verb [ trans. ] (often be cited)
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sometime in the recent past gunner posted this:

you're willing to throw at a small point. For the record, in this instance, 'my dictionary' was http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=citations . However, if I go to my hard copy Websters Ninth New Collegiate Dictionary, copyright 1988, pg. 243, 'ci-ta-tion 2 a: an act of quoting, b: excerpt, quote.' Good enough for me. Your argument attempts to draw the observers attention to the minutiae so that you don't have to deal with the facts. If you are to impress me, then try to at least do a bit of spell checking. My spell checkers just about crapped it's pants on this post alone.
The rest of your argument is more than I want to get into. It was your nit picking that made me rise to your bait. You enjoy to much listening to yourself, so I leave you to your pleasure.

--
Wilson N4439" W6712"

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instructor
My point exactly Mr. Wilson, a citation is a quote, not a reference. You cite facts, events, etc, in a writing but If you are quoting a paper or a book, you don't need to be writing , you are plagiarizing,
Good enough for me. Your argument attempts to draw the observers

ahh this was a bit confusing at first, MS OS yes? yea it doesn't like colloquialism or street slang. I'm not changing except when I am writing for a professinal audience but if that is all ya got I am good with that, Mr. Wilson!

Suffice it to say, you ain"t got nothing of substance? Good. I have always found when you put your nose into a fight that wasn't yours, regardless of intentions, you have a good chance of getting it smacked.
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cite |s?t| verb [ trans. ] (often be cited) 1 quote (a passage, book, or author) as evidence for or justification of an argument or statement, esp. in a scholarly work. mention as an example : medics have been cited as a key example of a modern breed of technical expert. Law adduce a former tried case as a guide to deciding a comparable case or in support of an argument.
So says the dictionary that came with my Mac.
or (n) citation, cite, acknowledgment, credit, reference, mention, quotation (a short note recognizing a source of information or of a quoted passage) http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=cite
Do you not understand English, gunny? What is your native tongue?

us see, a clever, self absorbed, narcissistic, bag of wind (gave you the benefit of the doubt there).
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- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
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OMG, you buffoons can't even get an insult right! Ya confused the sensory basics i.e. instead of "you enjoy listening to your self ...., You could say "I enjoy reading what I wrote" but that doesn't have the same effect does it, cuz ya should be proof reading what crap you both are writing. kinda like Billy's "citations".
Back OT , I can discount your author, Lowenfels, the one with the "soil foodweb" . Like all your "citations" to date, this is just conjecture, he lists no studies or research papers to show mineral salts kill micro organisms. His hook is the "soil foodweb" banner which is hyping the ACCTs. . Like selling bibles at a Billy Graham crusade.
Billy, I heard you graduated the 8th Grade twice so you should understand this; I don't want to be your book reviewer and I don't want anecdotal hyper BS obfucating what you stated . I want to see some valid scientific papers/research showing studies/ tests on how your statement mineral salts kill micro organism is true. I want to see the start, the test methods and the results which should be replicable. I don't want post hoc BS or the argument from authority. If one of your "citations" knows it to be true, then there is a study/paper on it, otherwise it is an unsubstantiated opinion.
Stop your habit of throwing out a lot of BS and stupid personal attacks to cover your propaganda. Now if you will excuse me, I have more important things to do, you once again cut into my allotted research time with your fantasy theories. Show me or shut up!
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Couldn't figure it out, or getting lazy? If two authorities aren't enough, you won't open your eyes to see what you don't want to see. You don't like my authorities? What have you got? Never mind. We have more important things to do, than give you a chance to see your name in lights.
--

- Billy

There are three kinds of men: The ones that learn by reading. The few who
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Gunner challenges:
Billy, I heard you graduated the 8th Grade twice so you should understand this; I don't want to be your book reviewer and I don't want anecdotal hyper BS obfuscating what you stated . I want to see some valid scientific papers/research showing studies/ tests on how your statement mineral salts kill micro organism is true. I want to see the start, the test methods and the results which should be replicable. I don't want post hoc BS or the argument from authority. If one of your "citations" knows it to be true, then there is a study/paper on it, otherwise it is an unsubstantiated opinion.
Billy again pussyfoots, counters with even more BS:

WE? Are you in one of your Sybil personality modes again?

Once again your definition of an authority is BS ( scream louder, I'm on the Internet) . Unless you can give a valid reference to a scientific paper or some such research that one of your "citations" has actually accomplished or perhaps has knowledge of .....you make a false statement. It is certainly not out of the character for you to do that, you show a history of making up facts as you preach. When that doesn't seem to work, you attack ( which is more of your wussy Internet persona).
I am sure your first reference was a very good lawyer ( soil food web??? do check out where Dr. Ingram is working these days) and I'm sure some the second might be some fine master gardener. I have not read the latter because as I said, I am not going to be your book reviewer. You procrastinate again, son. We both know the reason. Regardless, you still cannot back up your lie(s) and you have been played into saying it so much, you own this one. Mineral salts do not kill micro organisms any more than manures do. You cannot justify this lie, no matter how hard you try nor how much you squawk.
Go back to your pretend Google book of the month review club and play up to your fan base. Seems they buy into your BS.
Gunner You can fool some of the people all of the time and all of the people some of the time ... then there is Billy... who just hasn't got a clue.
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I've given you two authorities for my position, gunnie. One , Jeff Lowenfel, Harvard University, geology; Northeastern University, law, and two, Dr. Joseph Schwarcz, the new chair of the ACCN Editorial Board, the director of McGill University's Office for Science and Society, a professor in the chemistry department and teaches nutrition and alternative medicine in McGill's Medical School.
Where is your degree from gunnie? Get help, you're sick.
--

- Billy

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You are quite fickle, billy, and very comedic. The first source doesn't give any proof that of mineral salts kill micro organisms and his analogy of table salt and slugs is quite laughable. Course your source has no commerical interests does he?
As to the second source, isn't Dr Joe the one you and "your group" went to great lengths to denounce, calling him a Monsanto shrill? Why the sudden turn-about? Short term memory loss? Do you think he supports your use of scary numbers and false statistic fringe think?
Actually I find he is very anchored and mainstream, he certainly dismissed "your group" fringe think and you are still cherry picking his comments. That whole debacle was quite entertaining.
So enough of your silly games billy. As both of us know, mineral fertilizers do not kill SOMs when properly applied. You haven't found a peer reviewed scientific paper to prove this and you won't. I'm stepping out of this thread and letting you get back to your sermons. This one quite exhausted its purpose.
But do yourself a favor, when a man is asking advice to help his family, don't climb his ass, espcially with BS lies.
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