Organic Food Helps Revive Fortunes of Europes Farmers

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Couldn't possibly be because we agree with him and not you?
You do not sound like the voice of reason, you sound like an ardent chemical user and supporter.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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wrote:

It's not like this is a high volume group. It is no trouble whatsover finding material.
How does one separate their personal life, from their love of gardening? You talk and think about all sorts of things in the garden. If information is all you want, there is more than enough on the Web. There is more than enough in books. You are just irritated.
I want to know about people. I enjoy learning about people's lives and trying to envision how that affects their gardens. You want to make your garden all work and no play, fine, your loss.
"Gardening is a kind of disease. It infects you, you cannot escape it. When you go visiting, your eyes rove about the garden; you interrupt the serious cocktail drinking because of an irresistible impulse to get up and pull a weed." ~Lewis Gannit

So you are saying organic growers are price gouging? That's crap, if you are talking about responsible growers. Just like you stated that organic growers would resort to poison to save their cops. That would instantly decertify them.
If you are talking about what passes for organic, like the walmart/usda approved crap, like what is going to be allowed with the passage of the new farm bill, then yes, I agree.

You certainly have condoned the use of chemicals, ie. your better tasting apples.
I wasn't only speaking of what is said ongroup about chemicals....I stated you should research the issues elsewhere, on your own. There is a huge body of evidence supporting my position, and I am not going to review all of it.
And as far as our growing population, that event has been brought about by better living through chemistry, and it *will* change. It's changing already.

I have no respect for the use of poison on any food. Chemicals are what brought us to this point, and now the masses rely on the use. THe soil has been destroyed and now we are being destroyed.
That is the reality. That is being realistic

Care Charlie
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Great Quote Charlie!
Here's a poem by Blake.
Enjoy !
Bill
The Garden Of Love
Poem lyrics of The Garden Of Love by William Blake.
I laid me down upon a bank, Where Love lay sleeping; I heard among the rushes dank Weeping, weeping. Then I went to the heath and the wild, To the thistles and thorns of the waste; And they told me how they were beguiled, Driven out, and compelled to the chaste. I went to the Garden of Love, And saw what I never had seen; A Chapel was built in the midst, Where I used to play on the green. And the gates of this Chapel were shut And "Thou shalt not," writ over the door; So I turned to the Garden of Love That so many sweet flowers bore. And I saw it was filled with graves, And tombstones where flowers should be; And priests in black gowns were walking their rounds, And binding with briars my joys and desires.
--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
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In article < snipped-for-privacy@sn-indi.vsrv-sjc.supernews .net>,

Well now. Charlie and his merry band have a troubadour to give our aching muscles solace.
--
Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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wrote:

esprit de corps, en effet.
Charlie
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On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 15:19:31 -0400, William Wagner

Perfect.
Charlie
--
Some keep the Sabbath going to Church,
I keep it staying at Home -
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That should be easy enough. Your reader has a kill button, doesn't it? There are posters that bother me one way or another. I have no reticence in pruning their view of the world from my reading. Read us or ignore us and our "esprit de corps". You already have the choice.

In the mean time, you'll eat poison?

local growers and farmers markets. Ain't you listenin' boy? The damn food doesn't have to travel 1,500 mile to get to you plate. Eat seasonally and locally and the food will taste a hell-of-a-lot better and, if you pick your growers, will be healthier too.

We didn't just fall off the turnip truck. We know that there are many, agri-businesses with political support and efficient merchandising departments to help separate us from our money in ways that will give theme the largest possible profit margin.
What the hell we talkin' about this for? It ain't no secret, that we are getting reamed.

your point, like bringing some facts to the table, or some cogent logic.

to be in the enviroment, don't use it.
Tell me that you know about "Body Load". About all the damn chemicals that you are packin' around in your body, that nature never intended to be there. Tell me hat you know about the thousands of tons of industrial, pharmaceutical, and agricultural chemicals that are dumped into the environment, in this country every year.
Do you have any idea of what that damn water soluble NPK fertilizer does to the soil? If not, the look for the posting of the review of "Teaming with Microbes".
Speakin' of chemicals, Vietnamese and American plaintifs exposed to Agent Orange during the Vietnam war on Monday presented their court appeal against 37 US producers and suppliers of the chemical defoliant.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20070618/wl_asia_afp/usvietnamwarhealth
Ain't Agent Orange the grandaddy of "Round-Up"? At the time they said there was nothin' toxic about it except for a little contamination from dioxin.
And dioxin is what was used to poison Ukrainian opposition presidential candidate Viktor Yushchenko.
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/12/11/yushchenko.austria/index.html

don't look right, question it. Bring arguments, don't just piss an' moan that nobody is listenin' to you. Maybe they will, if you have somethin' to say.
--
Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Billy Rose wrote:

That's fine. What does bother me is that when certain people like Oz dissagrees with the 'group', he is branded as a troll. You can't have a reasonable discussion if you immediately rule out of hand any opposing arguements by type casting people.
I see here the consistent referal to chemicals as poison. This is the 21st century and we cannot eliminate chemicals from our life. What we can do is insure that they are used properly. As I stated many times, there is value in organic aproaches to farming. The mistake here is that organics are not yet developed enough to completely replace chemicals. It's a goal worthy to pursue, but in a sensible manner. Many things in our world that have improved our society like atomic energy, but unfortunately people have abused these powerful and useful discoveries. I hope nobody attacks atomic energy, as it is one of the cleanest ways we have for generating electricity.
I understand Charlie's pleasure of chating with his friends, but sometimes he and others go a little too far in discussing personal matters. It just clogs up the forum. I don't want to kill these postings, as there are occasionally some interesting things about gardening buried inside.
Sherwin

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Oh come on! I know you are probably talking about me, so why not just say it? So what if my personal rant the other day was broadcast? I had a bad day, a bad week, and I couldn't talk about anything without getting it all of my chest, STS. It might have been OT, but it made me feel better for the moment. And it was affecting my garden too, unfortunately. Just ask the two pepper plants i ripped up while weeding. I'm sure they can tell you all about it. LOL. Sorry if I talk to much - that's just me being me. What does talking hurt? You never know, you just might find someone who can relate. But I'd still rather have someone tell me to "shut up" than to hint around at it. And by the way, i thought OZ's commentary the other day was pretty funny myself. I try to insert a little bit of humor into things too. Now, don't get the "tone" of this post wrong, I've laughed about the entire time while typing it. And, just so you know, I still appreciate your help the other day.
Have a great day, I'm gonna try to! Rae
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Rae, Rae is my sister's name. Never had much use for her. Thought she may turnout OK for a couple of years but it was just an illusion. Glad you resurrected good feeling about the name for me.
Two pepper plants? I hope they were small. When I do something like that, I need to set down until the blood returns to the surface of my skin. I have about 20 peppers in the ground (mostly sweet for salads and frying) with room for an other dozen (in the germinator, almost ready to plant).
I think that you and Charlie do expose too much of your personal lives and I fear that some mean spirited poster may try to use it to cause you pain. On the other hand, early Christians used to confess their sins (in word or deed) on public steps, for all to know. At least they didn't have to worry that someone wouldn't like them if they found out who they really were inside. Don't stop ramblin' on my account. I used to love listenin' to Charlie Weaver and his letters from Mount Idy and I enjoy Garrison Keeler's "News from Lake Wobegon, so reading your musing and observations is kinda comforting.
As Sam Clemens used to say, "Love your enemies, it will drive them crazy".
Best regards,
--
Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Have a total of 9 cayenne, 4 tabasco, 2 peter, 6 bell, & 4 banana (hot variety) thankfully the when re-planted those two seem to be doing alright. all the rain that has started back is helping.

Hadn't heard that quote, that i know of. that's a good one though. I've been doing the best i can possibly do, other than my two rants on here. things have settled down too. i still bite my tongue alot. LOL, alright, I'll shut up now............

best 2 you, Rae
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wrote:

This winter we'll have a good gardening discussion about the merits of the different peppers. I have raised some that I *highly* recommend for frying and fresh.......some as sweet as apples, they are.....organic apples, that is.

Hell Billy, I live under a microscope, though folks don't peer through the eyepiece too often. I admit to being a bucketmouth, but am careful about what I reveal, and to whom. I certainly get your point. Some of the details I have revealed, have a point to the revealing. Some would assume it is trollish, not the case. But this reminds me of a quote by our old buddy Kurt V.
"We are what we pretend to be, so we must be careful what we pretend to be." from Mother Night. Kurt Vonnegut
Don't take that the wrong way, it just illustrates something, the point of which I forgot as I was interrupted by a phone call and must take my leave....for a bit

Old Sam was a wealth, love the old guy.......bit of a local boy you know.
Charlie
--
"The question is not whether I am paranoid . . . but whether I am
paranoid enough." - unknown
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We all enter our stories through circumstances but then it is taste that directs the narrative. But once in awhile our habit of seeing becomes an artifact and we see again with the eyes of a child, without expectation and with wonder.
--
Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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wrote:

Dammit, Billy...you couldn't let it be, could you?
You've opened up that hole, that longing. That longing for the return to "the garden", that state of innocence and wide-eyed wonder.
Hunter, Tim, Joe, and many of the boys advocated one way to this Alan Watts, Ghandi, Jesus, Mohammed...how many are there.....untold others advocated other ways.
Once in a while.....
Perhaps that longing for once in a while is the rudder that steers the course of our lives.
Too bad I couldn't have had the Present Billy as a Guide in the Far Past.
Back to Now Charlie
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mentioned earlier, an argument (as all Monthy Python fans know) is a connected series of statements intended to support apoint of view and not the automatic game saying of "no it isn't". Do you understand me? Am I going too fast for you? That is it in a nutshell. If all you want to do is say, "I don't think so", fine but you don't have to ramble on about it characterizing other posters with unsupported lables. (You still with me?) If you have read the posts (and it appears that a glaring number of them have gotten past you), then it "should be possible" to make an intelligent response.

on up are chemicals and mixtures of chemicals. Drop the litany. Your flogging a straw man. It was never argued. The POINT is do you eat a fruit, knowing that it has pesticide residues in and on it (that work in unknown and synergistic ways with other millions of tons of chemicals that have been dropped into the environment from pharmaceuticals to industrial-waste) or do you pick the organic one. The one that evolution has selected you to deal with?

9,950 years to find out if it is safe or not. I would call that myopic. But that is beyond the the scope of this discussion.

the two. All students have to adjust to their teacher's style of teaching. Suck it up.

proper argument.

--
Billy
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wrote:

"Gainsaying", Billy, not "game saying".
Best wishes
Geoff (;>))
(A "pedantic" Monty Python fan) (P.S. Not here to have an argument.....)
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snipped-for-privacy@leavethisout.blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

--
Billy
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wrote:

It can be......

Oh! Thank you very much. Is that just along the corridor? (Geoff mutters under his breath.... "I am a stupid git!") Would that be "self-abuse"?
Geoff
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snipped-for-privacy@leavethisout.blueyonder.co.uk wrote:

(Loud chuckle) "Think I'll go talk to the large breasted typist now". (exits stage left)
--
Billy
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snipped-for-privacy@leavethisout.blueyonder.co.uk expounded:

Geoff! Long time no read :o)
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
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