Low carb, high fat cute garden plants?

[Bill]

Jennifer, I would guess that you failed 3rd grade health class! :)

Bill

[Bill]

Yeah, how did they get to be diabetic in the first place?

I'm talking about "healthy" people, once the horse is out of the barn, it's too late!

I realized that some diabetes is caused by malfunctioning of the pancreas, whereas type II diabetes is caused by eating unhealthy and being fat at an early age.

Bill

[Luna]

The amount of carbohydrates consumed by the average American is extreme. What's not balanced about a serving of meat, a salad, and a side of broccoli or spinach? Why do I need mashed potatoes or french fries with it?

[Ignoramus13229]

Mark Cohen and G. J. Armelagos, Paleopathology at the Origins of Agriculture. New York: Academic Press, 1984.

Civilized humans only exceeded the life expectancy of Paleolithic hunter-gatherers people in the 20th century. When people began eating technology dependent foods they lost 40% of lifespan. Cohen is a professor of anthropology at NYSU.

Stefansson, Vilhjalmur, Cancer: Disease of Civilization. New York: Hill and Wang, 1960. Documents the unsuccessful 100 year search for cancer and heart disease among hunter-gatherers. By the famed arctic anthropologist who was the last (white) man to discover new lands in the Americas.

[belly]

On Mon, 13 Sep 2004 11:50:39 -0700 in , "Bill" graced the world with this thought:

we must've missed your medical credentials... could we get a cite on this please?

[simy1]

actually, free-ranging cattle (organic) has substantial amounts of omega-3. and is of course leaner (and tougher). evidently stress, and grains, play a role in how a beast puts up its fat.

[Ignoramus13229]

or how we put up our fat... diabetic humans have "marbling" in muscle, similar to gran fed cattle. It is called Intramyocellular lipids.

i

[marengo]

You're embarrassing yourself with your complete lack of knowledge of the subject. You're trying to tell low-carb dieters about low carb whent hey are expeienced and you are not, and you're trying to tell diabetics about a disease that they live with and have first-hand knowledge managing. That makes you not very intelligent.

Geez, on the troll scale of 1 to 10, you're only about a "2!" (You fall into the "mildly annoying but harmlessly ignorant" category.

Try googling "Frugal." Now there's 10; Frugie knew how to troll ASDLC!

-- Peter Before/Current Pix:

[J. David Anderson]

I am bored, so I will waste a little time playing with the trolls.

Yep. You like my funny hat and pointy slippers? Colourful aren't they?

Whatever gives you the idea that I believe in a high fat diet?

Far from it. My diet has no superfluous carbs, low saturated & trans fats and is biased toward protein. I exercise for a minimum of an hour and a half every day, hydrate very well and do not expect any problems from the high protein. I eat large quantities of vegetables, fruit and nuts, cook with healthy oils, eat fish several times a week and eat only fully trimmed, lean meats in small portions. I have a BMI under nineteen and less than ten percent body fat. I weigh better than 45 lbs less than I did in June, all without any damage to my health or any likelihood that I will have any difficulty maintaining this weight.

You are jumping to unwarranted conclusions with your sweeping generalisations. Not all people who reduce carbs in their diet are involved in Atkin's Ketonic Kapers; some approach it it in a sensible fashion. This newsgroup is alt.support.diet.low-carb, and although there may well be a number of Atkins supporters posting here, they are just a part of the crowd, not the core of the group. Even among Atkin's followers, there are many with a sensible and healthy approach to low carb, not all are on permanent induction.

I maintained a steady and healthy body weight for more than twenty years on a relatively high carb diet because I exercised, swam, rode, ran, kayaked etc., every day. There is no health without exercise, there are no free rides. I have never met an obese person who had a regular exercise routine. Diet has little to do with their core problems. Motivation is the biggest single problem, along with lack of emotional security/support. The oft touted "fat and truly happy" person is someone I have yet to meet.

Strangely, exercise is one of the best anti-depressants existing, a pity more people don't try it.

Not being proved effective is not the same as being proved ineffective or dangerous. Sedentary people who derive most of their calories from protein do often have problems, particularly if they fail to hydrate sufficiently. Those who are athletic and who bias toward protein do not have any problems as long as they do not lift protein intake to excessive levels, ala body-builders.

The report covered the Atkins, Zone,

The only advantage of extreme low carb (Atkin's induction - ketosis) is suppression of appetite. All effective diets work by calorie restriction

- there is no other way. I believe Atkin's induction to be damaging and unnecessary. The same effects can be achieved by limiting none essential (no nutritional value) carbs from the diet, capping calories, and raising BMR by building muscle with exercise.

I have been involved with health & fitness for most of my adult life. My renewed interest in these groups, particularly Low Carb, is due my contracting medically induced type 2 diabetes. I was on long term Prednisone. I doubt very much that anyone is likely to find a better diet and fitness regimen than the one I am currently on.

You certainly wouldn't be able to, you don't seem to be able to differentiate between low carb eating, something that is healthy, and the body damaging extreme carb-starvation type diets. You also need to differentiate between people losing initial weight, those who are simply maintaining a healthy weight with healthy eating practices, and diabetics who need to restrict calories to control blood glucose levels. All have different needs, reasons, and methods.

Why don't you go and annoy the Atkin's groups? Many of them have aggression to spare and could use someone like you to vent on.

Regards

David

[J. David Anderson]

Bill, you are an obnoxious little piece of snot.

I am sorry that I responded to you in a civil manner in my last post, however as I am a strong believer in karma, I will take comfort in that probability. When you are diagnosed diabetic and come looking for support I hope that people remember you. You don't have to be overweight to become diabetic, something that you don't seem to know, but will one day learn; hopefully the hard way.

David

[Pat Kiewicz]

Limited availability...and very pricey. But definitely better fat profile.

[Pat Kiewicz]

Cutting out most fruits and many vegetables (which he did) because they contained cabohydrates -- foods that are loaded with beneficial phytochemicals

[Ignoramus19552]

[simy1]

how about zone 7. will olives work in zone 7, mr complexon? that's two whopping zones higher than zone 5.

[simy1]

I don't know about that. We eat meat about twice a week, and we probably spend $20-25 for the whole family. And we don't do things really cheap: we have, besides the standard meats, lamb, buffalo, ostrich, all sorts of things. Organic meat is about 60-80% more. We definitely spend $40 or more for fruits, except in the fall when one can buy locally.

[Glenna Rose]

I'm sure glad you added that "in most cases" because it doesn't "always" take years. My sister died the day before her 21st birthday (the day after Thanksgiving) of an aggressive cancer that "only occurs in old people" (her doctor's words) with the chances of her getting it "one in a million" (again, her doctor's words). As near as they could determine, it started weeks before her second baby was born that February. That would make it having been there far less than a year before her August surgery which revealed the cancer to the doctors, and required extensive surgery in a hopeless attempt to save her life. Even if they were off on their estimate of start time by several months, it would still make it less than year before surgery. Without surgery because of her extreme and increasing pain, she would have died with only an autopsy revealing that it was cancer . . . only the pain and lump were any symptoms which were attributed to an enlarged spleen.

When cancer growth is talked about, one must take into consideration the age of the patient . . . it commonly grows much faster in young patients than older patients. That has to do with cell growth and regeneration which becomes slower as we age.

And, yes, very healthy people can get cancer. A local doctor, a competition iron man athlete, who I would have identified as the healthiest person I knew if asked, died of brain cancer. He, undoubtedly, was yet another victim of former Hanford employees.

I wouldn't be at all surprised to see studies that show that a sudden change in diet (of less than three years duration) has much of an effect on warding off cancer which, as you said, usually takes several years to reach a point of detection. Helping get it under control might be another matter altogether since the mental attitude factor is an important part of any cure. Often people who have a good mental attitude beat unbeatable odds, against cancer and other medical issues, leaving doctors puzzled. I have had the good fortune to know several of those in my life. We humans are quite a complex machine with no one-size-fits-all answer or solution. The best we can do is take as good as care of ourselves are we are able to do, trying to educate ourselves to what is best (versus what we want!) and implement it into our lives. That is likely a large part for most of us on this group in having our own gardens. Even the few months a year we can eat fresh-from-the-garden veggies is a big plus for our bodies. I, for one, am not elated each fall as the garden is gone. As I type, the nights are cooler and production is definitely down. I console myself with knowing I can dig 'taters all winter.

So, can we still plant garlic this late?

Glenna

[DigitalVinyl]

Healthy people-- you mean people who pay little attention to what they eat yet maintain a healthy weight without an ounce of trying?

Perhaps Bill thenn you can explain to doctors around the world why "Adult Onset" Diabetes (type II) is showing up in children prior to puberty in record numbers. ?Because at the age of 10 they have had a lifetime of eating unhealthy and being fat? Overweight children have always existed--I was a fat kid at 5 years old. But I still haven't officially developed diabetes at 38.

Yes, you are the official answer man.

DiGiTAL_ViNYL (no email)

350/268/Sep-263/200 Atkins since Jan 12, 2004 Maint. not counting (CCLL=50-60)

[Roger Zoul]

Pat Kiewicz wrote: || Ignoramus13229 said: ||| ||| In article , Pat Kiewicz wrote: || |||| Side comment #2: ||| |||| I have kind of a problem with the whole low-carb thing. Limiting |||| high-glycemic foods is sensible. Avoiding highly processed foods |||| is sensible. Eating a lot of meat from grain-fed, confined |||| animals and |||| the wrong sorts of fats isn't. Someone close to me went on the |||| original Atkins diet. He developed kidney stones and ended up not |||| so much later with inoperable cancer. Soured me on the concept. ||| ||| Scary stuff! My only question about this inoperable cancer, it ||| usually ||| takes years for cancer to appear and develop. Are you sure that he ||| did ||| not have cancer before? || || Cutting out most fruits and many vegetables (which he did) because || they contained cabohydrates -- foods that are loaded with beneficial || phytochemicals -- foods that are associated with lower rates of || cancer -- and eating loads of supermarket beef certainly didn't help.

But it likely didn't result in inoperable cancer, either.

[Pat Kiewicz]

I don't plant mine until mid October.

[Pat Kiewicz]

Sorry, I wasn't clear; shortly after the kidney stones (years on the diet) he was diagnosed with cancer. Kidney problems are most definitely a risk for some people in a high protein diet.

I don't believe the diet *caused* the cancer but rather *promoted* its growth. (The cancer was diffuse rather than a discrete tumor, therefore not removeable.)

Best advice, based on years of reading (in science and nutrition): eat plenty of nutrient-dense fruits and vegetables.