I'm pretty new to gardening and would like some advice. I havin trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.
I would like to know if this may be harmful if I am growing vegitable to eat.
Normally I pick them all up, but I went away on Holiday and returned t find a phenominal amount in the garden. I started to pick it all up bu it started raining heavily. Now I have found it has all disappeared dissolved into the soil.
Before I get any advice on how to stop the Cat I have already tried Lion poo, tea bags soaked in Olbas oil, pepper, ultra sonic ca scarers, making friends with the cat and feeding him, orange peel, CD stuck into the ground and making access difficult. My plan was now t install an outside tap and fit a motion sensor with water gun
I do believe cat poo is harmful to humans. I think it goes like this. If the animal is a carnivore (eats meat) and has a one chamber stomach, the animal uses E-coli to break down the proteins - then yes it is bad for vegetable gardening. The biblical sense - an unclean animal - humans included :)
Animals that are herbivores that just eats plants, chew the cud, like cows, have a multi-chamber stomach and does not use E-coli for digestion
- then yes it is good for the garden. I think it need to dry out first.
To keep cats out of the garden you could try the "cat-scat" mats.
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fence may work as well.
I would not feed the cats if they are not yours. Feeding them will just make them poo more and stay around your home longer. If your Cats, they are very good at keeping the mice away and can be trained to use a litter box.
In my world it is rabbits, mice and bugs that are problems. My little yappy dog helps with the rabbits.
Ruminants have e-coli in their systems also, the spinach food poisoning episode that happened last year was caused by run off from a nearby cattle ranch.
trouble with a cat using my vegatable patch to do his buisness.
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One thing that is known is that pregnant women are at increased risk for toxoplasmosis as a result of exposure to cat feces. There may be other hazards to the general public - especially if the cat happens to be sick.
It's a real nuisance - I know my garden is frequently the toilet for cats all over the neighborhood. I've yet to hear of any reasonable solution :(
My local coffee shop makes used grounds available for anyone to haul away. If you spread it around the garden it greatly discourages cats (they don't like the taste when they lick it off their paws). As a beneficial side-effect, it kills snails and slugs and encourages earthworms.
Part of the problem is that said ruminants have developed strains of e-coli that are acid resistant as a result being fed.......corn.
I believe MP hit on this as well
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1998)
excerpt: Research reported in the Sept. 11 issue of the journal Science indicates that grain-based cattle diets promote the growth of E. coli that can survive the acidity of the human stomach and cause intestinal illness. E. coli contamination is responsible for more than 20,000 infections and 200 deaths each year in the United States.
Fortunately there is a workable solution to the food-safety problem, the scientists say. By feeding hay to cattle for about five days before slaughter, the number of acid-resistant E. coli can be dramatically reduced.
"Most bacteria are killed by the acid of stomach juice, but E. coli from grain-fed cattle are resistant to strong acids," explains James B. Russell, a USDA microbiologist and faculty member of the Cornell Section of Microbiology. "When people eat foods contaminated with acid-resistant E. coli -- including pathogenic strains like O157:H7 -- the chance of getting sick increases."
To Other posters: Please expand my knowledge. I agree that my view was wrong on the digestive process of animals. Billy's view makes more sense.
Question #1: I always thought at least carnivore's poop was not good for use in vegetable gardens because it contains E-coli. Is this concept correct? If not, Why? Question #2: Does herbivores like cows have E-coli in their poop? I thought one did not get E-coli from cattle products. I thought E-coli came from unsanitary meet packing houses that ended up in ground meat. Steaks were not a problem, simply searing the steak would kill the E-coli on the surface area (marinading meet should be cooked thoughly).
Question #3: From reading Charlie's posting, the answer to #2 seems to be yes. So does this mean that even cow manure (cow poop) should not even be used on gardens also? This seems to go against an old tradition.
I do believe E-coli can be found from contaminated water and if used on vegetable gardens can be bad news also. I thought water contamination came from mostly human waste sewer run offs and not cattle wastes run offs.
Please expand my knowledge of this subject. Just trying to get some basic rules on the use of animal waste fertilizers if one should use it.
I wouldn't worry about it unless you are growing root vegetables, like onions or carrots.
The biggest problem I have with cats is when they dig up young plants in the flower beds.
I have a couple of dog (one of them is a big dog) and this year when I do my "spring cleaning" in the back yard, I'm planning to dig a deep trench in the garden. I'll bury all the dog mess, and later plant tomatoes over the top of it. I think tomatoes will like that.
A risk of disease tranmission at least (eg toxoplasmosis), not to menton the smell.
I think it goes like this. If
So do many herbivores. Horses and rabbits for example produce manure that is quite suitable for the garden from a one-chambered stomach.
the
The ruminants (cattle, sheep, goats, bufalo, alpacas etc ) have multi-chambered stomachs also have E Coli in their gut.
The main issue is, are there likely to be diseases that can pass from the manure to humans, this is not limited to which strain of E Coli may be in the gut. This is the source of the generalisation about carnivore manure being unsuitable and herbivore being suitable. A secondary consideration is the smell and the minimal fibre content in carnivore manure. It isn't the shape of the digestive tract or the bible :-)
It's not the e-coli, it is a plethora of other pathogens and parasites, some of which haven't been determined to be destroyed by composting. Some parasite eggs can live in the soil for a considerable length of time...longer than one season. Imagine grubbing about with your fingers insoil that is contaminated with hookworm, whipworm, coccycidiosis (yeah, it ain't just a chicken disease...years ago we came up with an abandoned collie that ws infected and we quickly had one hell of a problem with the other dogs and the soil.....it was over a year before we whipped that problem...like I said fecals every six now.) Good grief, as I ponder this, it makes me want to go hang the dog and cat! ;-) Not really, the cat gets dewormed every three months whether he needs it or not and the dog gets a fecal check every six.
People really need to be aware of the fact that many animal parasites are zoonotic, that is, they are transmitted to humans. If you have animals, particularly pets with which you are in close contact, they need to be checked often.
Yes. Other nasties too. Fresh horse manure and urine, for example, can contain, and transmit tetanus and lepto, amongst other things and parasites.
AHhhh......I truly do enjoy a nice thick rare to medium-rare piece of cow. I'm pretty picky about my source though.
Just a couple of links that describe the hazards and offer recommendations about how to safely use cow crap.
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No longer. Here in northern MO and elsewhere, CAFO (concentrated animal feed operations), hogs in particular, are a huge issue and concern and the subjuct of a lot of contention and lawsuits. Water and air pollution is rampant, though proponents and many local and state governments say otherwise. The CAFO folks usually win. If you have ever been by such an operation, and seen inside and smelled them, from miles away even, you might question eating pork. Same for most other massed produced meats. And eggs. And milk. Fortunately for the masses, milk is pasteurized. We used to purchase raw milk from a neighbor, but I helped him milk sometimes and he was absolutely meticulous about sanitation. Washed the bag and teats before milking with water and antiseptic, sterilized milk buckets, clean hands, instantly cooled. Cows were tested for TB.
Life is risky. Ya just gotta know how to minimize, or eliminate, those risks.
My recommendation is to use only composted manure. I shy away from using manure, prefering alfalfa, both baled and meal. I also use fish emusions. This year I am trying the compost tea routine for soil health.
Herbivore manure can be a good source of nutrients, properly used. Composted, applied in the fall and allowed to overwinter, etc. Many parasites live in the soil and as a part of their reproductive cycle are attached to grasses, just waiting for the next herbivore to come along and complete the cycle.
After writing this, it occurs to me that one may want to use similar sanitary precautions that you would use in your kitchen.
Following up my own post, I am wondering if the widespread use of the various acid reducers that are foisted off on the public, are in fact, making folks *more* susceptible to e-coli infection.
"Yeah baby, that damned salad bar always gives me such heartburn, I'll be sure and keep on taking this here (insert drug of choice, that you have discussed with your doctor)."
Maybe excess stomach acid is the body's way of fighting contamination?
Are feral cats allowed to stray or are able to trap them and have them removed by your local authority?
I'm not troubled by feral cats because I have dogs, but I need to take action to keep my own dogs away from my garden. I don't know the size of your garden but I generally find chicken wire on stakes suspended above the garden keeps my dogs off and would probably make cats go somewhere else.
Traditionally, most gardeners don't put cow poop in a garden. The reasoning is the hay in their diet. They don't want to weed out the consequential seeds in the hay spawning unwanted growth.
E-coli is spread to meat in butchering from the internal part of the digestive tract of the animal. Sanitation is always important. Segregation of internal contents of the digestive tract from the meat is just as important. Its more common with chickens. But, exists with cattle as well.
I thank everyone for correcting my miss conceptions. I have saved all links for further reading. Lots to read. This is an important topic to me and I suspect to others. I do live next to a cattle farm that raises black angus. Their stakes are good.
I am a software engineer who now finds life in the country is nicer. Life is not simple anymore. The rules to healthy lifestyle seems to be getting more complex each and every year and as I get older learning new rules are getting harder each and every day.
There *is* much to learn, but one thing I have found is that unlearning things is more difficult. Even more difficult is determining *what* one needs to unlearn.
Glad you enjoy where you now live. Don't worry, it will become more simple as you gain knowledge and confidence.
As you receive information and opinions on this group, and elsewhere, keep this old Chinese proverb in mind... "All gardeners know better than other gardeners." ;-)
Thanks to Ann's realmilk link, which led me elsewhere I just found a source of grass-fed beef about thirty miles from here and the prices are not too bad. The local harvest link is a good one for locating sources near ya it would appear.
Just like a good rib, that is some philosophy into which I can sink my teeth.
WHOA!! Cool. I have the door open and a honeybee is sitting on my shoulder as I type!! Good omen.
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