Ironite Questions?

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Ironite is being sold by Central Garden and Pet of Walnut Grove CA who acquired the Ironite Name brand in 2006: http://tinyurl.com/6ldbxb
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0EIN/is_2006_April_24/ai_n26835785
http://phx.corporate-ir.net/phoenix.zhtml?c “879&p=irol-newsArticle&ID„6690&highlight
http://sec.edgar-online.com/2006/08/03/0001193125-06-160873/Section10.asp
the SEC filings list some of the subsidiaries such as GrowTec and Lilly Miller which also distribute Ironite today.
Jan chub, to address your retort to my statement about arsenic in greensand as "not bloody likely". I'm afraid so.
You can believe these or not but do some actual research on some of the other States that now also test and have these Ironite products on their approved list:
The Ferettel Co.'s (PA) Greensand 0-0-3 was 5.8 ppm and 30 ppm of arsenic/lead respectively,
GRO TEC's (GA) product IRONITE PLUS 7-6-6 was 0.001ppm /0.7 ppm arsenic/lead respectively,
GRO TEC's 1-0-1 product was 5.5509ppm /0.1ppm arsenic/lead respectively,
ALASKA FISH FERTILIZER CO , Portland, OR ALASKA DRY PURE FISH FERTILIZER 8-5-1 W-Y was Arsenic: 9.3, Lead: 4.6 ( note this is also a sub of Central Garden and Pet)
AGROWCHEM INC KINGSTON ONT CN KELP EXTRACT POWDER 1-0-19 Arsenic: 28.6, Lead: 1
WEST COAST MARINE BIO-PROCESSING Company, BC CN Arsenic: 10, Lead: .02
Source: http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/ProductDatabase.htm approved product list for sale in WA State.
Even Dr Scheckel from the EPA news brief you both keep referencing stated he believes that they changed their formula when he sent me a copy of the actual study to review.

I hope your doctor can fix that for ya, Billy.
Yes, I was wondering about the killfile also
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I'm sorry. Am I too Gruff for you ;O)

And I hope you find better games to play. If you think you know something, give a citation.
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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Wilson" snipped-for-privacy@home.com wrote in message

I wonder how many adults here ever read Carl Segan's, "The Art of Baloney Detection"? http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/W/Jonathan.D.Wren-1/The%20Fine%20Art%20of%20Baloney%20Detection.htm (If your too pressed for time just skip to "What's in the kit? Tools for skeptical thinking". ) Take the last line of this challenging of pseudo science to heart: . "applied judiciously, it can make all the difference in the world - not least in evaluating our own arguments before we present them to others".
Wilson First, Thank you for sharing some of your your viewpoints and your beliefs. Also, let me say I am glad you read and understood that the product changed hands a couple of years back. At least two here showed they couldn't comprehend (or refused) that fact. Hope you also understand that the company changed the forumla shortly after acquisition so as to be approved for sale by the States, specifically WA and CA where the new company is headquartered. After reading his last post to you I finally had to killfile the pseudo intellectual mouth (PIM), There is no hope for that boy and I got tired of you guys leading him* to water and not finishing the job.

To use your line of rationale; wouldn't the new company have suffered or gone out of business using your "good business dictate " assumption? Instead they posted $493 mil in sales, year to date, not bad in today's economy, so my assumption is your assumption is not as good a business model as you believe nor one they share. ( coulda, shoulda, woulda, instead they just did)

( touching life story deleted for brevity)

I served 20 years in the military... majority in Special Ops w/ some time in the Defense Nuclear Agency, even completed the FBI National Academy. Went from a Private to Chief Warrant Officer 3. My bona fides are field tested. I believe I earned my patriot merit badge many times over to where it doesn't need to be questioned, so I take great offense at your innuendo that someone is un-American because one does not believe as you think one should (I'm an Independent actually, in case that thought crossed your political mind) . For the record Wilson I believe in using best management practices and natural ingredients as much as possible. Non chemical options are always employed first, especially in the greenhouse and I don't use WMD. I have plenty of frogs, garter snakes and birds of all types patrolling my lawn/garden. Google/Wikipedia are book report tools, not the holy grail ( but they often contain the research references that so few employ). While I like to hear and read others opinions, tricks and techniques, I want FACTS, not someone's philosophical idealism when I make decisions. When I find conflicting information I will challenge that as I did here. For the most part, asking advice here is like asking Rush Limbaugh for pain remedy advice, not much good yet you still get the ranting. However, there are little nuggets of good info throughout and I still hold hope to read more sound advice here.
But I would like someone to please show me where using Ironite products is poisoning the earth, without all the drama and baloney? Especially since there are some rumors Ironite is using the touted Greensand for the iron source in some product lines( one from the EPA scientist himself in the holy citation). PIM's EPA's superfund sites link is pure "Baloney" and totally irrelevent since once again the brand Ironite(R) was sold in April 06 and the Ironite Products Company (AKA the company that used the mine tailing,. not the one selling the product today) settled with the EPA in May06, the mine made superfund status in 08. Bottom line...... no more iron from the Iron King's mine tailings in the product Ironite(R).
Now, ya gotta admit, it is pretty entertaining reading the Dodger standing up to the ELF. She easily gets them all flustered up to where they blink (cuss) first, Don't agree with all her points but she makes some valid ones that go unanswered, as well as some that should stay that way. Regardless she's got some huevos grandes.

Oh. yes you can and the Government finally sanctioned it, ask Cheney.

Yet ya still gotta stand and deliver at the wake.
My best to you Wilson
Gunner, WA zone 8a
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You mean similar to the FDA or the EPA, that have already been over run by the corporations? Before you think that is paranoid, check with any respected nutritionist or consumer advocate. Lobbying work$.

So you are conceding that the former product was poisonous or at the least, not conducive to health?
I think, you posted previous cites for the new Ironite formula. If it isn't too inconvenient, would you please post them again. I'm doing 60 hour weeks and stuff gets by me.

--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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In article

Never mind, I found it. http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/ProductDatabase.htm Looks like a great web site for evaluating Fertilizers and Pesticides.
http://www.envirolaw.org/consumers.html ELF vs. IRONITE PRODUCTS COMPANY
(fertilizer)
California law regulates the levels of heavy metals (such as lead and cadmium) allowed in fertilizers, and requires high levels be disclosed on the packages. The Ironite Company could not meet California's standards, because its fertilizer was being manufactured from mine tailings at a potential Superfund site. Nonetheless, it steadfastly refused to disclose the high levels of toxic metals on labels its packages to warn customers, as the law required. ELF brought Ironite to court, and Ironite -- after initially filing frivolous claims that its "free speech rights" were violated if it had to warn about toxic metals -- agreed to reformulate its products to get rid of the heavy metals altogether, and to contribute hundreds of thousands of dollars to the effort to clean up California's waters. (2006)
GRO TEC INC Mailing Address 10115 HWY 142 N Post Office Box City COVINGTON State GA
It appears that the new Ironite is completely different than the pre-2006 Ironite.
Post 2006 IRONITE PLUS 12-10-10 Arsenic 2.47 ppm Lead 62.7 ppm
Pre-2006 Arsenic 3,972 ppm Lead 2,677 ppm
Odd though, Heinz Brungs is president and chief executive officer of Ironite Products Company. The company has carried the Ironite label since 1987, although Brungs' association and ownership of the organization traces back to 1978 when he formed Metex Ltd., and purchased the Iron King Mine stockpile in Humbolt, Ariz.
Ironite Products Company 1340 Treat Blvd. Suite 650 Walnut Creek, CA 94597 USA
wrote:
Ironite is being sold by Central Garden and Pet of Walnut Grove CA who acquired the Ironite Name brand in 2006: http://tinyurl.com/6ldbxb his is a "Business Wire" article dated August 19, 2008 04:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time and mentions Ironite in the forth paragraph.
It looks like Heinz Brungs, who sold toxic waste for fertilizer, is still president of the company, which has a mailing address in Covington, Georgia and a business address in Walnut Creek California. It appears that Ironite sold the company to itself. Hmmmm
--

Billy
Bush and Pelosi Behind Bars
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In article

Must have learned well from Monsanto and its multitude of name-saving spinoffs.
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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wrote:

See from woodhouse's post your still trying to find the conspiracy Billy. BTW your research is still mostly wrong and lacking, but I'm glad you at least figured out you were beating that dead horse. Still waiting on how Ironite is posioning the earth.
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First, I am not "Billy" as one can plainly see from the attribution. Second, you have made a logical error in deducing any motive on Billy's (or anyone else's) part from something I've said.
If you have a specific issue with something *I* said, then state your facts. If you dispute something someone else says, then state your facts in response to the post in question. And btw, just saying someone's research is "wrong" or "lacking", absent any evidence, hardly comprises an argument with legs.
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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wrote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First, I am not "Billy" as one can plainly see from the attribution.

You seem well educated, so I assume you also read well. Please reread my first sentence again. This is not bout you. If your name is not Billy, you did not need to respond back? It is not a self righteous indignation thing on your part, is it ? I certainly did not mean to slight your interjection of a collusion theory. Besides, no, I'm not in error, I never thought you really said anything. This is not a challenge to your belief system, I could care less how someone worships, just what they offer as proof of their beliefs. So, now that you got this off your chest, do you feel better?
I KF him because of his continuously avoiding answering the OP question all the while using grade school book report material to confuse facts and all I "see" on my reader is you responding to my post, showing tidbits of his "research". So yes Ms Woodhouse, I did read and "see" chronologically where you jumped in the conversation and I feel very comfortable that protocol is correct in me responding, just as you did.

Conversely, just because someone infers some "fact" as he has done in this entire thread, does not make it a fact......Mr. B. Gruff has yet to present any evidence of his accusations , just some Google searches and assumptions yet he uses my sources to say that the product is not the same pre 2006 as it is now (duh!!! dead horse?) now claiming some sort of moral vistory or high road because he "alludes" that it was all a conspiracy.
Ironite Products Company is not located in GA, nor CA ( fact) . Most likely it is now defunct as there are no current records( assumption). Mr. Brungs was the President of Ironite Products Company of AZ but never any President nor officer of Central Garden and Pets whose address is the one in Walnut Grove CA, and owns the GroTec Company in GA, ( fact) It appears Brungs was a consultant of sorts to CG&P as part of the buyout ( fact) , however there are no records of the man since, mostly likely took his $6Mill and left as quick as the EPA would let him (assumption) . So again, despite someone writing conspiracy theory( pure assumption). I gave references to all this previous. I don't have to prove/disprove this, the person saying it has to prove it or at least establish some bona fides. It is easy to prove, Just search the State's Public Records, look at the Corps SEC filing for its Officers and Board of Directors. Has any of that been done as yet??? I bet not, nor has the "lawsuit" in ELF's thinly veiled advertisement( news release) been researched (btw it was not 2006 as noted in Billy's post you included, it was settled out of court and taken off the Court's Docket in 2003,BTW the settlement outcome was a warning label telling kids not to eat Ironite 1-0-0 ). How about the EPA report referenced in their news release that keeps being touted as the smoking gun of poisoning the earth? Has anyone read it? But the bottom line, don't try to break suit and trump the hand with a unproven(and unprovable) conspiracy theory. (see the Art of Boloney Detection)
Again, It is not my job to refute BS statements by doing that persons research for them, but I will challenge them. Now I have proven my case that the horse is dead with factual references and yet for all this self righteous indignation and pseudo research material, I'm still waiting for someone to answer the OP question and tell how the Ironite being sold today is poisoning the earth? Is this just more Internet myth, mystery and intrigue? Perhaps Brungs is now working on recycling asbestos material into sandbags for FEMA?
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Learn to use Usenet. There are many FAQs. When you have something to say to someone, the polite (not rude) thing to do is to respond to the copy posted by *that* person--- not someone else. It's a very simple concept.

How utterly silly and fictitious. But you amuse me as would a fly drowning in the buttermilk.

I interjected no such thing. You appear to have either a vivid imagination or a need to pretend.

Normally, one puts a period at the end of a sentence, not a comma.

Then it is your comprehension at issue, not mine.

My belief system is not at issue. It's a fact--- not a belief--- that you responded to the wrong post. [...]

Am I supposed to care about that?

Irrelevant to my posts.

Your topical argument is with someone else, not me. It is illogical (not to speak of ridiculously convenient) to KF the posts with which you disagree and then respond to uninvolved others instead--- as though they could possibly give a rip. I certainly don't. Perhaps you are afraid the OP will provide an argument you can't contest so it is easier to post your dri....... uh.... thoughts to uninvolved parties. Perhaps what you need is a controlled audience--- one that will delight in your every word. What you need is a moderated NG.

Your mode of employment is of no concern to me. If something seems "BS" to you, then contest it with facts. Otherwise, it is *your* credibility that is in question--- not the post you tag as "BS". I can just see this arguendo before a judge:
You: "Your Honor, Counsel for the Plaintiff's argument is BS"
Judge: <laughing> "Hearing no facts to rebut the Plaintiff, this case is dismissed."
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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wrote in message>Irrelevant
Exactly my point, but your pretentiousness is cute.
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Translation: "I can't respond intelligently so I'll just make a smart remark"
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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rants on again in message

Issie, you forgot to attach your remark!
In the meantime, I will run your conspiracy theory through the Area 51 Data Bank and cross check the X-files to confirm your accusations. I just have to say though, we have to quit meeting like this. My wife is getting suspicious. So, lets pretend to be getting some FACTS on the thread topic of Ironite, specifically how is it poisoning the earth? I'm sure we will talk soon, cuz I know you can't do without me. Your hopelessly hooked now.
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As I have disclosed no conspiracy theory, that contrivance and the rest of your nonsense puts you squarely in the dumper with the rest of the trolls--- the flotsam and jetsam of Usenet who who delight in getting their rocks off by pathetic, moronic attempts to disrupt honest discussion. You failed (again). And you certainly have naught to say about gardening. I guess you'll have run along to the binaries now with the other dysfunctional twits to burn off some of that.... <snicker> ...deviance.
OB-Gardening:
"My garden is an honest place." Ralph Waldo Emerson
--
"I will show you fear in a handful of dust"
-T.S. Eliot
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wrote:

Well Issie, I guess its for the best, we must think of our spouses first.
Just know that I have cherished our short time together and I will always have fond memories of you.
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snipped-for-privacy@stopspam.com says...

So there's a cutoff date on the original product.
I'd suggest that the warning isn't irrelevant quite yet, unless there's been a recall of all the old product and every bit of it has been been pulled from homeowners' shelves and returned.
Do you have a time frame for when new product -really- began to hit the shelves and know of any significant label changes between old product and new.
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I don't know any cutoff datet. A recall would have been prudent since it was demonized as such a major health concern for years. I have no clue as to why that did not happen, but I am not a judge nor a lawyer not even a part of the media circus. I would have thought the ELF lawyers being as savvy and protective as they have claimed in their many news releases would have asked for a recall in their settlement. I note the SF court documents are a bit different than ELF actually claims in their website. All we can do is read the actual courts documents and not rely on what either of the two parties claim.
Some side info for the conspiracy theorists.... The lawyer for the Ironite" reconstruction "was a John G. Kerkorvian, Esq. of AZ reputed to be one of the many Keating lawyers, (background info on Keating): http://www.azcentral.com/news/specials/mccain/articles/0301mccainbio-chapter7.html ), the Owner of Ironite Products Co is/was a Terry Nolan but the CEO/Pres of IPC was, as reported, a H. Brungs http://www.greenbeam.com/email/archives/gc05-02-06.htm who hired on to consult with CentralG&P and later with the EPA to sell the mine tailing clean-up material to the Alaskan Highway Department to be used in the "Bridge/Road to No Where" Project so as to mitigate cleanup cost. (just kidding about the last part!) The other is feeding the fire for those so inclined.
It appears a recall wasn't considered when the parties settled out of court in CA, I believe the Judge signed the order in Aug 03... no lawsuit... $150 K for the Elf lawyers, $150K for the ELF's charity group, a restriction not to sell the product in CA until the product or the CA law was changed and a requirement to put a warning label on the bag for Kids not to eat Ironite 1-0-0 or soil that contains Ironite 1-0-0 ( Ya, some people have to be told this). 1-0-0 was the only Ironite product mentioned. http://webaccess.sftc.org/Scripts/Magic94/mgrqispi94.dll?APPNAME=IJS&PRGNAME=ROA22&ARGUMENTS=-ACGC02409694 , Don't know if there were other soil products made by IPC. They did make some product for use in oil field mud, don't know if they still do.
There is no Ironite Products Company website any longer to check. There is a mention from some Zoominfo website of IPC's address being in CA but it is from a website that gathers internet business info (GIGO) similar to what Dun and Bradstreet offers but at the K-12 level. I have my doubts of its accuracy and do doubt the reference sources it uses, but please, ... check the sources it lists for yourself, the last one listed is from 2006/7 but says the exact same thingit references in 2000 so it is a recycled news composite article referencing another old source or what we use to call a rumor confirming a rumor.
I've said prior there is info out there that shows the Co. being sold in April 06, the EPA reaching a settlement with the Mine in May 06 ( do not know if it is a cease and desist order or just clean up action) and the Superfund designation status in Aug 08. I do not have a actual date of the WA State analysis, they are being pissy and I don't feel it worth my while to file a PDA (a Public Disclosure Authorization) to get it.
I'm still waiting for all this Info on how Ironite is killing the earth. Now I read in new posts where all chemical ferts are killing the earth's soil. I again invite all reading my $.02 here to read Segan's " The Art of Boloney Detection" and use it to keep facts from the manure.
BTW, did you know the organic fert ESPOMA GARDEN-TONE 4-6-6 uses waste product and has heavy metal levels of Arsenic of 9 ppm. Lead of 15 ppm and Zinc of 540 ppm? http://agr.wa.gov/PestFert/Fertilizers/FertDB/prodinfo.asp?pnameD78
Gunner
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snipped-for-privacy@stopspam.com says...

I think that the problem is, as is usual in our world, an economy of scale and a scale of ignorance.
What we don't know can hurt us. Someone, somewhere will try to exploit our ignorance.
Allow me to suggest Dan Ariely's "Predictably Irrational: the hidden forces that shape our decisions".

No I didn't. Thanks for the reference.
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says...

I will get it. I believe this is info I have been searching for. I recall a headline that some Ivy League scientist conducted experiments that showed where a large percentage of people will not change their opinion even when confronted with concrete evidence. I wasn't able to save the reference . Regardless if he is or not, the excerpt I read sounded interesting. Thank you
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Billy, both you and Jangchub stated only a few days ago that you had both killfiled this troll.
It seems both of you are still reading her. I wonder why you'd bother?
She's a waste of your time and energy.
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