Gardengal, my argument with you wasn't personal. It was with the facts. Lord knows I've been on the dirty end of the stick enough time but each time I learned from it (I think I have, anyway) and moved on. There are many posters here asking for help, especially at this time of the year, and your knowledge and experience can greatly benefit all of us. Speaking for myself, I hope that you'll continue to post in the "wrecked gardens".
Sincerely,
Well Spoken !
Bill who has read many books and retains perhaps 5 %. Of this 5 % there are many differences and the water gets muddy often a fancy way of saying confusion . Still I think of the idea that amongst the muddy water try to remember the purity of the lotus .
Ah, but YOU made it personal. Personal attacks and rudeness have no value and very little place on a gardening forum. That you cannot enter into a civilized discourse without them says a lot about you and the confidence you have in your opinions.
I have no intention of being run off by the likes of you. I am extremely secure in my education and my knowledge - I've been in the horticultural industry for a long time - and I will offer advice and suggestions to the best of my ability to those whom I think can benefit from it.
However, I do accept your apology....or whatever it is. It's the first semi-gracious thing I've seen you write,ses
Self esteem: check Ego: check. Hubris: check
Looks like she's good to go.
So tranquility returns to the little band of > > > Gardengal,
Excellent, please stay. One does need mental callouses here and in life general. Take and give what you want and ignore the rest. If some one hands out a personal attack - just smile and move on. I, like many others here have enjoyed a good slam at others also. Smile and Enjoy Life. I have found this newsgroup has many well educated university degreed individuals. A most useful newsgroup.
Enjoy Life ... Dan
Meaning???
What about us pig-ignernt autodidacts? Are we useful too??
Ain't it a funny thing..... and 'twas ever thus.
Sniff, sniff.....
Charlie
At least those of us who repeatedly made the "Dean's Other List" probably have a good dose of common sense. Which, apologies to Gallagher, isn't all that common.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
Dan,
While I agree with you that there are still some very knowledgeable people that post, there are MANY of us that post a lot less (or not at all) because of all the "noise" here. Not only is all the off topic stuff distracting the name calling (and worse) is good reason to abandon these newsgroups. There are many moderated garden boards where the people are civil (or else) and that is where a lot of us have gone.
Uh, you apologized to the wrong guy. To quote Fr Jim Tucker, "All of this should go without saying, but common sense is surprisingly uncommon."
According to our oft absent, acerbic, taskmaster, Bill R., most of this should go without saying. His vision of rec.gardens appears to be on of terse questions and responses, both of which should be brief and to the point, lacking any sign of humanity or individuality. Some of us prefer "wrecked gardens" because it feels less "buttoned down" and more human.
I'm not knocking Bill R. for his attitude. In truth, he posts extraneous material ("Digital Camera - Pentax *ist DL"), he shows individuality, ("You are never to old to play in the dirt"), and posts on how the way things should be (see his post above).
I'm not sure what "noise" Bill R. would be referring to, but by any measure, the preponderance of what gets posted here has to do with the hows and the whys of gardening, and the social forces affecting gardening, whether it be dumb Ag policies, or companies like Monsanto trying to create a monopoly on seeds, to the detriment of gardeners and farmers alike, or companies like ConAgra encouraging and facilitating the consumption of nutrient deficient, processed foods, or the dangers of ingesting produce imbued with herbicide/pesticide residues, or health concerns about exotic proteins from GMO crops. It seems, to me, those subjects should all be fair game for a gardening forum.
Then their are the unfortunate ones like keelematt who comes along like so many before, apparently oblivious to the reasons behind the organic movement, saying, in effect, that they have poured gallon$ of herbicide$/in$ecticide$ on a problem, but the problem persists, and should they pour more? Having civilly answered this question ad nauseam times before, I would beg some understanding for those of us who try to get the posters attention, and the attention of others who are tempted to post similar questions, by hitting them over the head with a (figuratively) 2" X 4". Poisoning the planet is a bad idea. Why don't people see that?
Charlie has posted on soil amendments like special clays, charcoal, pointed out the dubious wisdom of spreading toxic, mine tailings on lawns and gardens, shared his experience with different garden cultivars, and noted the effect on the quality and cost of produce because of government policies.
Bill W. brings an understated sensibility of gardening to the groups, as well as some culture, inspired by what we like, so much, to do. Often, he is first with a site, which will resolve a poster's problem.
Maddie finds ways of inspiring some of the most slothful of us with her reflections on gardening, and time, and place. (Thanks Maddie, I'll be out this week end checking the prices on "Easter Lilies")
Jangchub, for all her drama, responds with advice on a myriad of subjects and even shares from from her labors.
Hopefully, brooklin1, will dial back his abrasiveness to more conventional invectives and venues, because he also has much to offer.
Although, I presume, the above are the malefactors of your ire, Bill R. don't forget the majority of irreplaceable and helpful people here like: Bungadora Cheryl Isaak Chookie David E. Ross David Hare-Scott Emilie Enigma FarmI Glenna Rose Ingrid Jan Flora Kay Lancaster Lilah Morgan Omelet Pat in Plymouth Susan N, The Cook Val
Apologies to those not mentioned, it's a big team. To paraphrase Shakespear,"All the world is a garden, and in our time, we all get to play many parts."
So, "wrecked gardeners" get out your shovels and rakes. Tape up those rolls of dimes, it's time to rum . . . uh, garden ;O)
Well Charley, your knowledge of gardening is greater than mine. The University of Self Taught is also of great importance. My degree is in Computer Science, not Horticulture. I am just finishing the educational part of the MSU Master Gardener Volunteers program. I depend on this newsgroup for knowledge and my entertainment :)
Enjoy Life ... Dan
As for the deer, more serious weaponry may be allowed? I'm making major height improvements to my electric fence this spring, as well as a more serious campaign of baiting it with bits of aluminum foil coated with peanut butter for aversion training. Maybe I'll get more than two heads of radicchio for Dear Lady to put in her excellent salads.
As for who first noted the rarity of common sense, it's probably like
*Hanlon/Heinlein's law, evident enough to have been commented on by various folk.I don't find the noise level objectionable; certainly less than the average pub approaching closing time, if memory serves. And I do observe that in many conversations the really good stuff is in the digressions.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
*"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."
Have you tried hanging bars of "irish spring" bar soap from your fence? I have read that this may work in keeping deer away. The soap smells like humans. Deer here can jump a six foot fence with ease, electric or not.
Thanks for the idea of planting radicchio as deer bait. My apple and pear trees are taking too long to grow by the deer blind. Will radicchio last through November ... hmmmm.
Enjoy Life ... Dan
God, I'll bet you're a barrel of fun to spend a day with, Bill, working in the garden.
Charlie
Charlie,
That is why I don't care for your posts. You don't know me from Adam yet you are *so* judgmental about all my posts. As far as I'm concerned you can ruin this newsgroup all you want with your WAY off topic posts and your very strange politics. I'll take my gardening knowledge elsewhere.
You (and a few others) have managed to chase a lot of longtime posters away and that is a shame but not the end of the world. There are many garden boards that are still very useful and the *best* thing is that they only allow GARDENING post (*NO* politics). This group was going long before you started dragging it down and will go on long after you (and I) are gone. It is just ashame that it has come to this.
Well now, thankee very much, for inclusion into the Club! By the way, I said I was pig-ignernt and self taught, never said I ain't got me no papers or letters after me name, nor did I say that I do have one of them wallhangers, (hell, it's hard to remember, it was the seventies, you know) though Billy's guy is gonna make me look smarter'n a coon during sweet corn season! In three colors, no less! ;-) I've spent a lonnng time trying to unlearn what I was learnt at University and before. I will say though, I were on the Dean's Other List with Gary. We received the better education.
Oh, I am enjoying life, more all the time, even with the buzzard shit that comes with aging. Stick around.......I'm sure there is much more enlightenment thru entertainment coming up! ;-)
You call it judment, I call it discernment.
What politics are strange? Those that differ from yours? Why don't you take exception to each and every OT post that shows here that goes against your system of thought?
I could not care less if you take your ideas and advocacy concerning the continuation of the poisoning of my planet elsewhere. People need to stand up against planet-rapers.
And your, and others, advocacy of the chemical solution may have accomplished the same thing with new lurkers and posters. It may have started the slow poisoning of a child......the chemical solution *is* the end of the world.
Diversity is a wonderful thing, and has kept this here old world choogling along for a loooonnng time. The destruction of diversity, in ideas, in society.... and *in the garden* is an evil thing, my friend.
I should not bother to even reply to you but you do need to know one fact. I, myself, am an organic gardener and ONE TIME I suggested the use of fertilizer and since then you been on my case (so much for your "so called" discernment). And, in my area (farm country), fertilizer is used by EVERY farmer I know. You can complain about that all you want and "go off the deep end" and say that farmers are destroying your world. I know for a fact that my grandkids are much healthier BECAUSE of farmers use of fertilizers and the better crops that they produce. You may think that you are "saving the planet" but you are only fooling yourself.
Don't bother to reply. I know I can't change your mind and you won't change mine so don't waste your words on me.
Some might dispute that. I'd rather get worked up over mega corporations bent on dominating the world's seed, and therefore food, supply.
Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G
And I shall take you at your word and apologize for my hastiness and lack of discernment.
Yes, this *is* true. They are destroying my world....yours too, Bill.
Ponder upon how much healthier your grands could be. Your assumption that better crops result from chemferts is wrong. And upon whose facts do you base your assumption of "better life through chemistry"?
Ummm....nope.
You changed my mind about your use of poison. Are you so inflexible that you cannot accept a changing?
Charlie
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