Gabbages

[mw80]

Hi

Just a quick one. I am new to gardening and i have taken over a allotment. I am attempting to grow much of what is intended to go int the ground from seed. Most things have been pretty successful so fa but i have had problems with my cabbages.

I planted Greyhound and a type of red cabbage (Drumhead?). Nearly al the seeds germinated and when i thought they were ready to transplan to biiger pots i did so and moved into my cold frame

It looks like i have lost all of them! We have had no frso (UK-Midlands) and everything else is fine. I used Westland West Advanced compost with a little bit of lime in (i was advised to d that)

Anything i have done wrong or have i just been unlucky? It seem strange that i have lost them all (there are 1 or 2 still alive that didn't have time to transplant)

Thank

-- mw80

[Omelet]

Cabbages do better in winter.

[Mary Fisher]

It could well be slugs :-(

My brassica seedlings are still in pots in the greenhouse, even the kale. I haven't planted out my Grehound and January King (red) seedlings yet, I'll leave it until they're about four or five inches tall then bury them up to their lowest leaves - but using a solid copper collar round them. That will stay on all their lives, it really does seem to deter the slugs. The copper mesh and other devices aren't as effective in my experience.

We've had true April weather here in Leeds, Yorkshire, and I don't want to risk feeding the slugs any more than I can help.

On lime - I scatter lime on the ground where my brassicae are to live a few weeks before they go in. Well, that's the intention. I've forgotten this year :-) It won't harm to use slaked lime even after planting.

You're not going to have 100% success with anything, even when you've been doing it for a lifetime. My old beekeeping mentor used to remind me that you don't get a chicken from every egg.

On the other hand - want any tomatoes?

Mary

[Charlie]

I'm testing that this year....

I am sick to effing death of cabbage looper eater things. I'm thinking that since they disappear by late summer, I'll start and set out brassicas for fall harvest.

Charlie

[Omelet]

Couldn't hurt. :-)

Will they grow in shade or does it matter? I need to consider putting in some chard.

If you are having trouble with caterpillars, try some BT.

[Billy]

You may want to USE IRON PHOSPHATE BAIT Choose a bait product carefully. Baits containing methiocarb kill earthworms and beneficial insects. Baits containing iron phosphate (such as Sluggo¨, Escar-Go¨, or Worry Free¨) are safer for children and pets than baits containing metaldehyde. Nevertheless, always keep this and all other pesticides out of the reach of children and pets. After eating iron phosphate, snails and slugs stop feeding and die within 3 to 6 days. They often crawl into secluded places, so you may not see dead bodies. Reapply iron phosphate baits every 2 weeks.

I use Sluggo and i t works very well. It says on the container that it is safe with pets and children and can be used up to the day of harvesting.

paste counties.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/HortFactSheets/factsheets/Slugs%20and%20 Snails.pdf into your URL. Yes I know it doesn't have a http:\\, just paste it in and hit return.

The slack lime is for what? Slugs and snails?

[Charlie]

That's what I thought, plus it leaves me more room for summer crop. I've read brussels sprouts taste better with a frosting anyway. ;-)

Brassicas require quite a bit of sun, so it is said. Chard will grow in partial sun, or so it is said. ;-)

I am hesitant to use BT as I have dill that attracts swallowtails and have caterpillars from them every year. They are usually doing their thing at the same time as the other dumb things. sigh...

Perhaps "time, time, time.. is on my side, yes it is.", when it comes to brassica.

Charlie

[Mary Fisher]

I don't.

Your choice. I don't use poisons. The lime, by the way, is to address the acid level of the soil, nothing to do with slugs.

Your poison would also kill snails.We have hens which eat snails as well as the other life forms you seem to want to kill yet which do good or at least no harm to the garden.

Mary

[mw80]

Hi Mary

It isn't slugs.....they certainly haven't been eaten by anything. Mor sort of wilted and died! They haven't even gone in the ground yet a all i had done was pot them on and leave them in my cold frame.

Would too much lime cause this as i may have been heavy handed wit it?!!

What is the purpose of copper around the cabbages? Could you explai how you do this in a little more detail?

Thanks everyon

-- mw80

[Mary Fisher]

Sorry, I misunderstood.

I doubt it.

The slugs slide along on their slimy bellies (OK so it's a foot). There's an interaction between the reactive copper and the slime which they can't abide. I've watched one trying to slide up a ring and turning round, hurriedly, back to nice safe soil.

Spouse cuts Cu sheet into 4 x 10" pieces, give or take. There are different sizes for different plants. The metal is coiled into a slightly overlapping ring, put round the plant stem (it's slightly springy) and pushed into the soil for at least an inch. I leave the rings in place until I harvest the plant.

If a longer ring is required two or more can be linked together.

Mary

[Omelet]

I grew in partial sun during the winter last time I did them. Pretty plants and OH so tasty:

So don't spray it on the dill?

A good place to move Swallowtails to is Parsley. It'll help on your dill if you did not plant enough. They also like fennel.

Indeed. :-)

[Billy]

Hens aren't affected by iron or phosphate, but they will pull up or scratch out seedlings.

The alleged poison is only poisonous (iron phosphate) to the gastropods. "Iron" is is an indispensable mineral to your health and you probably already add "rock phosphate" to you beds. Phosphorous is important for the hardy growth of the plant, playing an important role in root development and cell activity.

You will not find elemental phosphorus available at nurseries because it is highly flammable.

I am enjoying my first, nearly slug and snail free year gardening.

I just got tired of doing the midnight patrol with my flashlight and stomping all those snails and slugs.

As my plants get larger, I won't worry about their predation so much.

Good luck with your garden;-)

[Billy]

Brassica, in general, dump sugar into their sap in cold weather, as a form of anti-freeze, to lower their freezing point. As a result, they usually taste much better after the second or third frost.

[Mary Fisher]

Not in our garden, the vegetables are in runs. The hens range freely.

But I still don't want to use any chemicals to 'control' slugs/snails.

Mary

[PDM]

You said they wilted. This may be caused by overheating. Coldframes can get very very hot - hotter than a greenhouse even. It's the size; being small they heat up very quickly and need a lot of ventilation in the sun. Can't see it being the lime; although it is not usual to put in the pots, only on the soil. Don't know what that Westland stuff is. But wonder if you didn't over do it. If I do ever use fertilizer on seedlings, it only used at low rates so perhaps this may be the cause.

PDM.

PS: I'm in the West Mids too.

[Billy]

Hey, it's a free country, over there anyway. Hail Victory;-)

[Mary Fisher]

Indeed.

I'm not of the persuasion that would kill or destroy anything one didn't dislike or which was an irritant. If I were there would be fewer people in the world :-)

Mary

[Omelet]

Mainly a good 500 politicians and a few thousand lawyers?

[mw80]

Can you buy Sluggo in the UK

-- mw80

[Billy]

The SlugsSnails fact sheet < counties.cce.cornell.edu/suffolk/HortFactSheets/factsheets/Slugs%20and%20 Snails.pdf >

mentions Sluggo, Escar-Go, and Worry Free as products containing iron phosphate. I would do a Google search for < Baits containing iron phosphate, UK > and see what you get. The other solution would be to call a nursery near you and see if they carry an iron phosphate product or if they can order it for you.