Furmint Grape Vines Sought

[Pavel314]

I've been googling to find a location that sells furmint grape vines without any success. If anyone knows of a vendor, please post.

Thanks,

Paul

[Billy]

't get excited, it looks like you'll be put on a waiting list.

You might give the University of California at Davis' viticulture department a jingle. They might have a line on it (more likely someone who could or has imported it).

If you're planning on making a Tokaj style wine, you had best learn about botrytis cinerea, the mold that can turn a crop of white grapes into gold or garbage. It is botrytis cinerea (a.k.a. bunch rot) that is responsible for Sauternes, trokenbeerenausleses, and Tokaj.

[Pavel314]

Thanks, Billy, I wrote to them both. What I want to make is shipon, a Slovenian white wine made from furmint grapes. (In Slovenian, the "sh" sound is indicated by an "s" with an inverted chevron on top, but I don't have that letter available in my email fonts.) Anyway, it used to be available everywhere in Cleveland in the 1960's and 1970's but just isn't imported anymore, so I thought I'd grow my own.

Paul

[Billy]

Does it have a varietal flavor or is it the structure (fruitiness, mouth feel, tannins, ect.) of the wine that you like? If it was cheap, it will have been tank fermented (either a lined concret tank or stainless). If the weather is anything like Germany, the wines may be 6% to 11% alcohol. I consider that consumer friendly. What did the one you have taste like?

[jim c]

Hi, I went to the KZ Goriska Brda - Dobrovo winery in Slovenia (which is on the border with northern Italy) a couple of years ago as part of my honeymoon ^_^. The climate is very close to that of mid northern Italy.

I didn't try wine from the varietal you mention unfortunately, but tried many wines from their range. I think they are the biggest cellar or even producer in the country and used giant stainless steel tanks first. Subsequently they ferment in Oak barrels for the european market and in steel tanks with oak chippings for the US market. The guide told me that the American market seems to prefer the taste that way.

I know none of this helps the OP much, but I thought I'd chip in :)

Jim

[Pavel314]

After 30 years, I remember it as having spicy tones and being very crisp, somewhat Gewurztraminer-ish. It was my favorite of the Slovenian varieties. I picked up some more recent descriptions on the Web:

"It has a lively, fruity, almost peppery nose with some grapey depth to it. The palate is really lively and fresh, with an exuberant fruity, spicy character and a hint of spritz on the bright, acidic finish. This is a very pure, clean, minerally white that's full flavoured but zippy, and would be a versatile food wine. "

"The specialty of the area is Sipon: the must can achieve an outstanding content of aromatic oils and sugar, while the acids are less aggressive."

I ordered the last seven bottles of Sipon in stock at Zachys in Scarsdale, NY, yesterday. They may be the last seven bottles in the U.S. I'll post a review when they arrive.

Paul

[gene]

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I suppose a certain price point segment of the American market has gotten used to the more intense 'raw' taste of oak chip wine. I shudder that such an 'acquired taste' is now the preference for that segment.

Gene

[Billy]

Most French and German wine sells for less than 5 euros ($7.50) or a euro/liter at a co-op, in the country of origin. European oak barrels cost $700 f.o.b. here in the US ($2.50/btl). Only the prestigious brands can afford oak because otherwise if a small producer raises his/her price by half a euro, the buyers will go to their neighbors to buy at the old price.

Tank fermentation with oak chips isn't rare in this country either but it is usually done with red wines. Usually, with white wines, one doesn't want to obscure the fruit with oak. On the other hand, if the wine doesn't have any fruit (poor fruit or practices), a little oak may make the wine more interesting.

[Joe Sallustio]

You could check with Cornell too but Traminette grows well here in the Northeast and sounds very similar. It's my favorite local white.

Joe

[Billy]

Traminette is a European hybrid (Joannes Seyve 23.416 x 'Gewürztraminer). It will be less good than a good gewürztraminer, which can be exceptional, with distinctive aromas of rose oil.

I suspect that furmint is more like a good pinot grigio.

[pp]

[Billy]

[jim c]

I must admit I like really bold oak flavours and I am too philistine to mind how it got there. I am a wine noob, I have to add...

[jim c]

Sorry, I meant to add that the flavour of the wine was the selling point that they felt they were fulfiling rather than the price (I did ask). But, I can see where you are coming from I think. If the preference is nurtured then the price point is established...

[Billy]

Now I am confused as to what you are trying to say. By and large, chardonnay is the only white wine fermented in oak barrels. The Germans sometimes ferment in large oak casks in which, because of age and lack of sufficient surface area, they leave no flavor in the wine. It makes no since for an inexpensive wine to be fermented in oak, especially when it is a white wine, whose selling point is its' fruitiness.

The taste preference has probably been established since the Roman occupation. For conspicuous consumption a Slav would probably go for a French, German, Italian, American, or Australian wine.

[Joe Sallustio]

I make all of those from Northeastern US grapes and the Traminette is by far the best when it comes to nose and spice notes. I get most of this from near Fredonia which isn't too awful far from Cleveland. The seller (Walkers) does buy in grapes from all over the northeast but these are grown locally as I understand it. The Pinot Grigio could be overcropped but all I can tell you is it wasn't even on a par with a well made Chenin Blanc, it's just mediocre, not bad, not good. The Gewurz has a very pronounce grapefruit note that I really don't care for. The Traminette has come out like a nice Gewurz each time I made it. I make these dry so they show the flaws. I may blend the Gewurz or sweeten it to see how that turns out. I gave up on the pinot grigio last year...

Once you plant it takes a couple years to see where things end up,I was just speaking to the local region, not the variety in general.

Joe

Joe

[Billy]

Great fun Joe. It has always amazed me how easy wine is to make. You fermenting in 5 gal glass bottles or barrels? Used to be that white grapes were ready at 21 to 23 brix and reds at 22 to 24 and a total acid of about .7% but these days everybody is making wine for Robert Parker which means soft, high alcohol wines that are picked at 24 to 28 brix. This is a good time of year to have a cellar full of cool white wine. It's a 101F outside as I type. It's no good for grapes, all they can do in this heat is pump water for evaporative cooling. No energy for ripening grapes.

To your health.

[Billy]

Dry is how the Alsatians do it and it goes really well with quiche or tarte flambée.

[Joe Sallustio]

Billy, I use carboys and demijohns and usually ferment with heavy toast oak chips or cubes. I don't understand the higher alcohol trend, balance is balance. I have never made a wine over 14% ABV that didn't taste hot; I just don't care for them. I have had a nice old vine Zin that high but I didn't make it, my grapes aren't of that caliber.

Joe

[Billy]

I agree. Higher grape sugars make for nice sipping wines but 21% to 24% make for better table wines, IMHO.

Harvest for sparkling wines will start in about a month here. Better start cleaning your equipment ;-)