Fish Fertilizer and saving fish stock

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Strange thought entered my mind concerning the tragedy in Japan. With the higher levers do radiation entering the ocean. With this make the fish unsuitable for harvesting and will this enable the fish populations to have a long respite ? Anyone know about the ramifications ?
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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
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Good question! I'm glad I bought a couple of extra bottles of fish emulsion last fall when they were on sale. Steve

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The way they fish now, there is a lot of collateral damage. It's the collateral damage that ends up in fish emulsion. I'd buy organic.
As for the marketable fish, as is already the case, predator fish concentrate the most toxins, be it PCBs, polybrominated diphenyl ethers, or strontium-90.
In my conspiratorial outlook, I doubt the government would tell us anything, if it was low level chronic exposure. If it was acute poisoning, and instantly caused you to drop stone dean, they would probably put out a PSA advising prudence and cautioning against excessive consumption.
Bush's 3rd term: Obama
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- Billy
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Obviously, since this has never happened before, no one knows the ramifications. Duh.

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Bill who putters wrote:

Probably not. The ocean is too big so dilution works. The isotopes have short enough halflives that the radiation will fade very quickly. The current situation is a huge mess but the effects will remain more local than what happened at Chernobyl. There will be more of a move farther away from shore by Japanese fishermen but that's nothing new - They are hunting whales in the Antarctic Ocean already now.
Approaches that work for DDT and mercury will work exactly the same way for the small amounts of long life isotopes - Eat lower on the food chain. Plant eating fish over predator fish, squid over fish, small critters over large critters. Conveniently this approach also helps fish populations.

Far more likely to have impact on land industry than sea industry. No shift from fossil fuel to nuclear so increased strip mining in coal belts. Increased CO2 release. And no change in the exponential growth curve of installed solar cells so the good promise on that front is not effected. Given how industrious the Japanese have been in the past they will recover, rebuild and be back near the top sooner than most expect.
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Old news but be sure to look at the radio nuclide issues down in the article. Deals with increase of back ground radiation.
http://www.edwardgoldsmith.org/page37.html
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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

Unemployment is capitalism's way of getting you to plant a garden.
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Got Hope? Got Seed? Got a Clue?
So, are you better off now than you were 10 years ago? Are you better off now than you were 30 years ago, when we were introduced to the "Laugher's Curve"?
Me neither.
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- Billy
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in
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In article

What is the "Laughers Curve" ?
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Bill S. Jersey USA zone 5 shade garden

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It's the economic joke that Reagan pulled on the U.S. Sometimes spelled by the less humorous as "Laffers Curve", it is supposed to justify "Trickle Down" economics, a.k.a. "VooDoo economics". The theory was that there was an optimum level that would generate the most revenue. The irony is that America was at its most prosperous between 1947 and 1964 when progressive tax rates went as high as 91% to 70%.
Bush's 3rd term: Obama
If you like weekends (8 hr./day & 40 hr./week), then thank a labor union. They paid for it in blood. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair>
Jobs not Wars ==
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- Billy
Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies in
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Billy wrote:

c'mon, i expect more brains from you billy.
study a small amount of history and note that the USoA from 1945 on was perhaps the only major industrial country that didn't suffer damage to it's manufacturing infrastructure.
given the state of the rest of the world we had no place to go but up. you can tax that sort of system heavily and not kill it. taxing a weak growth system (like we have now) with many other issues and it's not going to perform very well.
songbird
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If one does not increase taxes on the wealthy, the greater the disparity of the rich and poor. The rich will continue to squeeze the middle class to get richer.
What if, Songbird, in the future, that ten percent of the worlds population can provide for one hundred percent of all goods and services for everyone on this planet through automation and mass markets. What kind of economic system would you have? It will not be capitalism!
The world is producing twice as many cars with half of as many people ten years ago. This trend is coming across all manufacturing/service areas. Without an equal distribution of wealth, this world will have misery the likes of no one has ever seen.
Population reduction is a must, this can be done with civil planning or be done with mass starvation and disease from the result of poverty.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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Oh, the things that I should have to hear. Is there no respect for age?
Weeeelll, the long and the short of it, at the end of the day, is that you're right. America spent vast amounts of money to prosecute the war, and it put people to back to work. WWII pulled us out of the depression. I think the US did about 50% of the shipping in 1950, and the US was uniquely the sole, modern, industrial nation on the planet that hadn't suffered from WWII, and around 25 years after WWII they recovered. This is the time of the one income household, which these days seems pretty much a dream. Did it really happen? Before the dream there was bone aching poverty, hunger, and encampments. This is the place were the people who push Laffer's curve would return us to. Yet it has NEVER worked. But if businesses could put up with 90% taxes in 1950, I think that they could put-up with a tax rate of 40% today, or close loopholes that let them not pay taxes on money made overseas, or shift taxes from the U.S. to other countries. That is what I was going to say next ;O)

This is quite a group of people that we have to deal with. We get tricked with sonar echos, incubators, weapons of mass destruction. Why? Maybe it has to do with 5 corporations owning 90% of the American media. Ge is a perfect example. They make money from the wars, and then tell us how the war is going.
The Republicans aren't the only politicians to sell out, but can you remember back when a Republican administration passed the "Clean Water AAct", the "Clean Air Act", and created the E.P.A.? These are different people. Now the corporations are neo-liberal and they say get out of the way and let the free market work. No need to regulate the markets, they will regulate themselves. Yada, yada, yada. Greenspan was surpised by the Wall Street melt down after the Glas-Steagul Act was rescinded. He was surprised but you and I are each stuck with a $35,000 tab, and bankers on Wall Street are giving themselves bonuses. The politicians support this usurpation of America, because they are given campaign donations, if they are nice.
Jobs didn't have to go over seas. Look at Germany. Worlds 4th largest economy, #1 in exporting. They manufacture good products at a good price for a good wage with strong unions, health care, 4 weeks vacation, and retirement. Why are these new guys dismantling the U.S. economy and shipping it overseas? MONEY. They steal from us. They steal from the past. They steal from the future.
No, Nad. It won't be capitalism.
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Well, I got an early morning rant, so just let me leave you with this.

The Shock Doctrine: The Rise of Disaster Capitalism by Naomi Klein
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It is interesting, one looks to learn from past mistakes and one looks forward to see the what if. Both views have it's flaws, the past could be going from the pan into the fire and future is hard to predict.
However, Respect has to be earned in my book. So, for me there is no respect for age. Different people have different views on this subject. I respect those: that are independent, create knew knowledge and helps others. I do not respect those that get rich of the misery of others.

Laffer's curve, as you say is another tool by the rich to scam others to GIVE the rich more money.

Yes, more scams by the wealthiest of the INTERNATIONAL corporations. Not just America. Rich getting Richer, perhaps in the future 7 corps owning 99 percent.

Richard Nixon, my favorite president. Shortly before I turned eighteen years old he lowered the age of adulthood to eighteen. On my eighteenth birthday my friends took me to the strip clubs and got drunk and I had great time. Shortly after I turned twenty one, they raised the age of adulthood back to twenty one. Why I liked Nixon, he has a special place in having an effect on my moral views :)

Capitalism and Socialism are two economic systems that are failing. The two systems may merge or something new will come out of the failing systems. Not sure what will happen, but I see turmoil until a new economic system takes effect.

I wonder why others cannot see this as well. Perhaps why the rich are against educating the masses. It works for them.

No need for me to read it, I agree with the title.

[SNIP]
Cool, you seemed to agree with me. Socialism has it problems as well as Capitalism. I see evolution still taking place. First tribes, then city states, then nations, merging states and nations. The next step will be more merging nations. However in the end their will eventually be a one world government. Between these times will be turmoil.
Right now I see a merging middle eastern nations forging ahead, for better or worse time will tell.
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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<snip>

Capitalism, socialism, and democracy can co-exist. What we have now is an atomization of society driven by greed leaving every man for himself.
Article in the morning paper summarizes the situation.
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<http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20110406/OPINION/110409742/1307/opi
nion05?Title=GUEST-OPINION-Green-Center-money-was-not-donor-s-to-give>
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I am not convinced yet that Capitalism and Socialism can coexist. I think something new is needed, less complex. Just like the link you provided, it shows me the current economic and political systems are failing. A system of complex patch work of thousands of little tiny rules are needed to keep these systems going. I do not realistically believe their are enough people to enforce all those rules and regulation to keep such a system going. The greed and hunger for power is like an economic tsunami caused by obsolete economic systems.
Hard times ahead until a better system is in place. Of which I am not sure. Only theories. Perhaps a everyone get a specific monthly dole.

Wars can create Jobs!
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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What a soulless equation. -
Bush's 3rd term: Obama - If you like weekends (8 hr./day & 40 hr./week), then thank a labor union. They paid for it in blood. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haymarket_affair>
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- Billy
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It is the literal side of me. I have this bad habit of turning phrases around :)
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Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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Billy wrote:

i think the older generation should be lined up and spanked for their recklessness with finances and their lack of wisdom in how they've taught their children to disrespect themselves (chronic debt/overspending, obesity, drug abuse being sure signs of the lack of self control).

true.

it did happen, but it is not sustainable if the entire world takes on this kind of economy.
the dream was in fact a nightmare in disguise because it gave the rest of the world the idea that they could live like pigs and it wouldn't destroy their environment or their health and that they'd be happy.

from what i can tell there will always be poverty (the definition changes) and the chance of starvation, misery, disease, tragedy, etc.
no one is immune from natural forces or the force of massed idiocy (war, riots, bad government).

all these elders are from the sixties generation... what happened to free love and hippy ideals? sharing the wealth?

and i sure hope continue to enforce these sorts of laws efficiently. without clean air and water we're in deep doodoo. and not the good kind of doodoo we can use as garden fertilizer...

that is a joke, but in the age of the information society it's possible to organize boycotts and get information out for much less than the cost of a burger and fries (soy burger and organic potatoes sprinkled with sea salt).

where is the $35,000 figure coming from? the bailout money is mostly repaid is it not?
the bailout worked in preventing a meltdown in Michigan even worse than what did happen, but the base fuel to the whole shebang was greed and it was the greed of the person who took out home equity loans, bought toys, spent it all, ran up debt on their houses, bought huge houses that they could never sustain if they lost their jobs, etc. in other words the bankers were not the sole villains in this. anyone who paints them thus is showing their ignorance and bias. avoiding taking responsibility for their own role in the fiasco.

buy USoAian from companies that manufacture in the USoA. this is a choice and the more people who bitch about jobs going overseas who don't actually do research and put their money where their mouth is are hypocrites. yes, strong language, but as far as i'm concerned it's this sort of person who will blame everyone else for their own created troubles.

it never has been, it never will be.
capitalism is not a moral system, it is more like a natural force. the moral aspects of the economy must come from the choices that individuals make in how they get and spend their capital.
if you want to force a moral economic system upon others, then you are attempting to force a religion upon them too.
if by threat of prison you force the wealthy to support the poor then you are enslaving them. i have no respect for slaveholders nor do i wish to be a part of any system that encourages such evil.
the civil war determined that slavery was to be ended.
now it seems that we forget life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness and other basic ideas about freedom and want others to be responsible for us (no matter our own erroneous ways).
i myself would love that all people feel responsible enough to fully take care of every fellow citizen no matter what their needs might be. i would however consider it unjust and immoral to tax anyone one penny above a level and fair amount. let those who want to fund socialistic things band together and do it. quite possible, legal, ethical, highly laudable and very noble. that is the sort of thing that a free people can do that doesn't degrade themselves or enslave others.
songbird
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Nad R wrote:

only if the middle class and poor continue to buy their products.

it's not capitalism now (it's a mix of capitalism and socialism). it really hasn't ever been pure capitalism and it won't ever be pure capitalism (because people can voluntarily form socialistic organisations and then distribute their wealth in any way they choose within a capitalistic system -- and they always have).
ok, what if? then you have 90% of the population texting and playing social website games and living off solar energy and organic farmed produce picked by robots. i doubt many of them will even notice the shift because much of it has already happened (the change from production being about things to production being about service jobs and jobs that involve entertainment and other forms of intangibles (like art, food and derivatives).

i'm thinking it's already got it but not many people actually are acknowledging it. in other words, looking around at the amount of violence, substance abuse, vandalism, environmental destruction, obesity, etc.

it's supposedly coming about by educating women and getting them into the workforce. i'm not sure that alone it will be enough.
i think it likely we'll have some more epidemics of some kind. population density continues to increase as people move to the cities. more people are raising chickens and pigs in close proximity again. these sorts of trends are asking for trouble. on top of the likelyhood of food shortages, riots, wars, water shortages, etc. it's going to be an interesting period of time coming up.
songbird
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Not in the US. More and More people are moving to the country. Carving up the the land into smaller and small segments at a destructive pace. The last census showed that most cities have fewer people. I am one of those that fled the city for the safety of the country.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-04-07-1Acities07_ST_N.htm?csp4news

Does this mean I have to kick my chickens, dogs and bessy the cow out of my bed room :) Or are you advocating vegetarianism? Or against farm factories from that last sentence?
http://www.ted.com/talks/lang/eng/nathan_wolfe_hunts_for_the_next_aids.html
> on top of the likelyhood of

Interesting only for those that can avoid the food and water shortages, riots and wars. Shortages caused by humans breading like rats. Let us support Family Planning and the Environmental Protection Agency :)
--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

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