Dog feces in compost?

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Sorry if this is a stupid question, but is dog poop OK in the compost bin?
Thanks, Brigitte
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NO! predator species manure may contain pathogens. Brigitte J. wrote in message

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Proper composting kills pathogens...
Thing about Humanure. :-P Contains far more pathogens than dog poop!

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wrote:

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I shovel up the dog shit and throw it up against the fence for my wild grape vines to eat. The grapes never come into contact with the poop, so I don't worry about it. The grape vines seem to be very happy, and I've got to do SOMETHING with the shit from 3 shelties and a border collie, plus two lab/chows that I'm boarding for a friend! ;-)
The grape vines (and the honeysuckle vines) seem to appreciate the fertilizer!
K.
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Seems that using it on anything I'm going to eat is out of the question. But I have some other things I might try it on.
Thanks for all the "shitty" ideas. :)
Brigitte
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:-D
Just be careful with it. It's very rich in Nitrogen!
K.
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wish I could find something fool proof to do with it - particularly this week as some nerk has stolen my wheelie bin !! (I'm in the UK - for anyone who doesn't know what a wheelie bin is - it's a big trash bin you set outside every week with your trash bags in it to be put in the garbage lorry. I expect it will be a week or so before the council will bring me a new one). So my poor little temporary dog shite bin in the back garden is full to overflowing ....ick.
Rachael
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Composting it for flower gardens and other inedibles is acceptable. :-)
Have you seen one of these?
http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/product.asp?CID=0&mscssid H1EETKN8AQ8GR7A V1W4KJB1LL79X29
This is created specifically for dealing with dog waste. I'm seriously considering getting one. ;-)
K.
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Um.. that's your session ID at the end, more likely you wanted http://www.jefferspet.com/ssc/products.asp and then pick "waste disposal" from the list to the lower left (javascript required).

<professional dog breeder falls on floor laughing>
Here's what I've found in 35 years in dogs (and I keep 30 to 40 Labradors, so I dispose of around 40 lbs. of dog shit per day).
Those waste disposal systems are more work than they're worth, and prone to fail when the weather is too hot/too cold/too wet, because they're not deep enough, and being essentially a little septic tank, they need stable conditions to flourish.
If you are feeding a diet that is based on meat/corn/animal fat, the stool will deteriorate from exposure to weather, over a period of several months turning first into dry odorless lumps, then into white crumbly stuff, then into ashlike stuff that disappears into the dirt. The only way you can tell where it was is that in the spring, the grass there is 3 feet high before the rest of it even gets going.
If you are feeding a diet based on chicken or lamb and rice with chicken fat, don't bother -- it turns into smelly concrete-like lumps that stay that way pretty much forever, except for losing some odor over time. A full season of rain and crushing the lumps manually can eventually turn them into crumbly stuff, but it never does turn into really good fertilizer, nor become completely odorless.
Before the big shift to chicken/rice in the early 1980s, I could just fling dog shit out into yonder field forever, and it just disappeared. Now, I have to pack it to the trash and pay to get it hauled away, because otherwise it just piles up and is a mess.
Note: the massive increase in skin "allergies" in dogs was exactly concurrent with the shift away from meat/corn/animal-fat diets; such problems were never seen in normal dogs (those without autoimmune disorder) prior to the big diet shift. Draw your own conclusions.
~REZ~ http://www.longplainkennels.com (or since the redirector seems to be down this week, http://home.earthlink.net/~rividh/kennel/labrador.htm )
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wrote:

something called a Dog Dooley - is that what you mean ? I have often wondered if they work - my dad had four poodles (two standards, two smaller) and he bought something similar. But he said it couldn't keep up with it - though to be honest, it didn't look nearly as capable as this sort of thing. Any ideas what the "digester" powder stuff does and what it looks like when it's done ?
Rachael
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Yes, that is what the link was pointing to. :-) I should have done a tinyURL, sorry!

The Dooley is a bit small I think if you have multiple dogs... I've considered building a larger one for myself, maybe out of cinder blocks. I don't see why I could not build a mini underground septic tank and just buy the digestive powders sold at the home store for regular septic tanks.
The powders usually contain specific bacteria that is beneficial for composting. Home septic tank systems usually benefit from a similar product.
K.

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Brigitte J. wrote:

Sure, in small amounts in a hot bin or an active worm pile.
I wouldn't put large amounts in a cold compost pile or directly in a vegetable garden.
I can't cite a reference, but I've read in several places that dog and cat waste can carry disease and should not be used in a garden. But it won't last very long in a working compost bin (even human waste can be used in a garden if it's from a properly designed composting toilet.)
Bob
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Hot composting is the key... Predator poop is going to be higher in nitrogen than herbivore poop, so can be useful but it really needs to be completely composted to kill possible pathogenic bacteria.
K.
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wrote:

three are veggies, healthy, wormed reguarly, given regular shots, etc. and only I and my bf (and the dogs) will eat from my garden, which has to be said, is mostly flowers, but this year with some sunflowers, tomatoes and peppers, plus a few herbs.
My composting is not up to stratch yet (waiting for my big composting bin to arrive as I haven't the space or area for a heap) but I am always hoping to use all that cack I get from my three for *something* !
Rachael
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As long as your dogs are getting enough protien... :-) The protien requirements of predators like dogs are higher than that of herbivours, so the feces should be higher in nitrogen since that is a waste product of a high protein diet.
As for safety, more folks are concerned about possible pathogens that dogs may carry in their poop, including parasites. Most dog parasites tho' are not communicable to humans.

I know the feeling! <grins>
K.

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Highly unlikely on a veggie diet, tho some of the small pet breeds (ie. those not bred for a mission in life) can get by on diets that would be starvation for a working dog or brood bitch.

About double that of humans, 3-4x that of herbivores.

Yep.
Not exactly. Coccidia and giardia don't really give a flip what they inhabit (beaver, elk, and cattle can all carry them, as well as dogs; drinking from those sparkling mountain streams is a good way to get giardia). And the various common worms (roundworms, tapeworms, hookworms) will also infect just about anything in the short term, tho may not reproduce there. Some of these are commonly found (encapsulated) in soil anywhere that has EVER had livestock present. If you make a habit of licking your shoe soles, you'll come up with roundworms or pinworms fairly quick. You can almost always culture coccidia and giardia from any dog if you work at it hard enough, being they are natural inhabitants of the gut.
As to disease-causing pathogens, those outside of E.coli (which is in anything's lower gut and only a problem when it gets where it doesn't belong) tend to be species-specific. Frex, you can't get canine distemper or parvovirus. You CAN get canine brucellosis (a venereal disease of dogs), but only by contact with the mucosa of an infected dog. But picking up anything from dog shit is pretty damn rare -- it's sure not a problem for we with kennels who work around dog shit every day for years on end, and take no special precautions.
Cat feces are somewhat more of a problem, what with -- now I can't make the name come to mind, but the common pathogen that is a specific hazard to pregnant women.
~REZ~
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snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net (Rez) wrote:

Note that I said "most" parasites. ;-) There are always exceptions...
Dog and cat tapeworms, if ingested by humans, may live there for awhile but they won't reproduce in humans and complete a life cycle. Same I think goes for the common Ascarids?

Yeah, Giardia is pretty universal! Even birds get that and it makes them (and humans) very sick!

Toxoplasmosis. You have to work at it tho' to get it, but pregnant women still should not clean litter boxes. You can get the cats tested and treated for it if you are all that worried. :-)
Pregnant women can also get it from Blood transfusions... Humans can become carriers.
K.

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Of course. Without exceptions, how would one define the rules? :)

Yes, but what can happen with ascarids (roundworms) is that instead of migrating to the gut where they belong, they wind up in the liver, brain, or some other organ that does not cope well with them at all (I've heard of one winding up inside an eye!) Admittedly this is a very rare freak occurance that can also happen with human pinworms, but if you're feeling paranoid, there's something more to worry about for ya :)

Well, not exactly. An *overgrowth* is what makes you sick. Having a little giardia or coccidia (which is more common in birds) in your system won't, if you have a normal healthy immune system and a reasonably normal balance of gut bacteria.

Yeah, that's the one.

Same with any parasite :)
The issue with human feces as compost isn't so much normal stuff it carries no matter what (ie. the usual bacteria and parasites), but rather stuff that someone living in Mexico or the Phillipines or China has adapted to because it is part of their environment: that is, anyone who survives to adulthood has an immune system that can cope with it, thru long exposure. Naturally, some babies die before they can develop resistance.
But we who live in "civilized" countries have no immunity to such organisms AT ALL, so if WE are exposed, we are at much worse risk to get really sick. Also, a lot of the 3rd world countries, where human feces are used for compost, have a fairly high incidence of cholera and other diseases that are shed in feces, without much distinction made between compost from healthy individuals or sick ones.
The U.S. health service has occasionally issued advisories against Americans going to Mexico City, because that brown haze over the city is NOT just ordinary dust or smog -- it's the dust from dried human dung from all the surrounding slums where there is no plumbing and people just shit in the streets. The residents have adapted to it (per above), but someone from another ecosystem is very likely to become ill from it.
Conversely, the common canine diseases that shed in feces or urine (such as parvovirus and distemper) are not transmissible to humans.
~REZ~
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<snipped>

There's a pretty easy prevention for this in places that have clean water - Wash Your Hands before you eat, and wash the veggies if you're going to eat 'em raw.

My understanding is that the health problems occur bec. the human waste is *not* composted but used fresh. Composting will kill pathogens. Just the time it takes to compost kills some of them, iirc, even if the pile doesn't get real hot.
Also, we need to keep in mind that in the U.S. we're blessed with clean and safe drinking/washing water. Not so in the Third World. No water treatment, those pathogens get into the water and whammo, disease.
My solution, wrt composting the dog doo, is to put it in a large, dark-colored trash can. Drill holes in the trash can for aeration. Layer the doo-doo with, oh, dry leaves. Leave it in the sun for the summer; keep it damp. If you're in a warm climate, you're almost assuredly going to get it hot for a week of that time, if not more, from the sun. No need to stir, but not a bad idea to stick a pole down into it every once in a while for air. Then stick the stuff in your compost heap. Or let the worms move in, which they will when the temperature cools in the fall, and next spring you'll have 1/3 of a trash can of worm doo.
That's what I used to do when we lived in the city. I never measured the temp in one of those bins, but they seemed to get pretty hot, so some of the pathogens shoulda died. The appropriate temp is what, a week at 150 F(?) Or 180 F(?) to kill parasites.
flick 100785
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