Break New Ground....Build More Beds.....Get More Pots Growing

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I have sympathy for the man Charlie. Growing up in the shadow of Yorba Linda, birthplace of Tricky Dick and home to his library, can twist a man's mind. Instead of the armpit of Los Angles, I "grew up" (if thats the right way to put it) behind the orange curtain (Orange County) surrounded by alfalfa, and lima bean fields. Not far from the Seal Beach Navel Weapons Station (as it was known then). I cant believe it now but I would roam the fields, when I was 5 yr. old, with a .22 rifle. Its all housing tracts now. In high school they would bus us out to Anaheim (I think), if we wanted to listen to Fred Schwartz, a virulent anti-communist. Since we weren't being monitored, we went and ditched. Great fun.
Your right, Jimmy Carter is anathema to all that is Republican. But I dont really like the Democratic Party either.
Santa Ana Register is the only newspaper I've ever seen that starts its' editorial page with a benediction. Marina del Rey was a restricted community, no Jews allowed. This is the area that B-1 Bob used to represent in Congress. Any connection between the mountain lake and La Puente is purely illusionary. Southern California, its all pose and posture.
When I finally saw Sausalito, I went home, packed my bags, and never looked back. Nice beaches in southern California but thats about it.
Im gonna go pull some weeds before it gets too hot.
--
Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum
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be given> wrote:

Actually I don't agree about Nixon. He stuffed up big time with Watergate and he was certainly paranoid but he at least was one US President who had some realisation of the place the US holds on the world stage and he certainly understood that the US wasn't "an Island entire unto itself". He had some 'interesting' foreign policy problems but at least he tried to do something and in some instances he got it right. Contrast that with Bush's foreign policy.
And at least Reagan had a sense of humour. I'm still waiting for Bush to do anything that is even vaguely non cringe worthy.

But IIRC, so could Kennedy.

Thinking of it, can you actually mention one US President who didn't have Foreign Policy disasters? I can't off the top of my head (at least in my lifetime).

I'm pea green with envy. All I can do is ground prep whilst waiting for Spring. I'm sitting here rugged up to the eyeballs and they are forecasting the possibility of snow (and we very rarely get snow here). Ah well, we are now past the shortest day so enjoy your summer while you can 'cos that sun is heading back to us Southern Hemisphereans again soon :-))
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Me too, damn bunnies who I haven't been able to catch yet ate my sprouting melon plant(it's an 'early' variety, supposed to take around 76days from sprout to harvest, but with our weather I think it's already too late to try and start again), and the cucumbers haven't sprouted at all. Real annoyance is I had the melon in a protected area, or so I thought. I've already started working on keeping the chickens in the coops so they quit eating things, and the geese, a small foot high barrier around a plant(and a foot or so between the plant and the barrier in all directions) will keep them away, but the damn bunnies, there's so many of them(at least 10...last year our neighbors had a female bunny they wouldn't keep locked up, and my male bunny got loose, and we ended up with 3 or 4 litters of at least 4 each before I got my daddy bunny back, but a couple of their babies I didn't catch, now they're having babies, and I'm out of cages...trying to catch them on Saturday and just leave them in a cardboard box with straw and food/water overnight, then sell 'em at our stand on Sunday. Though it was funny when one time, when I caught most of the bunnies, I was putting them into a cage for a friend to take-they have a mini-farm too-one of the bunnies got loose, and ran off...right back into the live trap. Silly bunny!).
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In article

backed Chiang Kai-shek, who represented the capitalists against Mao Zedong and the landless peasants. So we had to find a diplomatic way out while supporting our client, Taiwan. I met Nixon once. I wasn't impressed. Just an average politican, who jumped on the anti-communist bandwagon.

I'll go have a glass of mint and lemon water in your honor.
Later,
--
Billy
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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Well, you see, there was a time after WWII that the US did 50% of the worlds trade because most of the industrialized world had been blown to bits. We had lots of money for things like infrastructure and such. A family could live on a single income and Mom, unlike the previous epochs, could stay home with the kids. Nobody was homeless unless they wanted to be. Cars changed their design every year and it was the era of "keep up with the Joneses". Firestone et al., bought up municipal railways, forcing people into transportation with rubber wheels.
Why do Americans love their cars? Manufactured consent. We bought what we were told we needed. We can be a pretty provincial lot.
In Europe (France and Germany, anyway) the high price of gasoline has a function in that it helps pay for health care and retirement, among other things, instead of just going into the pockets of plutocrats.
Just a small bit of criticism in your posting Farm1, and it isn't meant to be judgmental and with the best of intentions but what did the chaps color have to do with the anecdote? The non-knuckle draggers here are trying to go color blind as fast as we can work it out. Remarking on skin color, sex, religion, nationality, and language where it isn't needed, have given us a world of hurt.
Best regards,
--
Billy
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wrote:

et al., being in part, Standard Oil, General Motors...you know, those who had vested interest in Happy Motoring, not efficient and cheaper transport.

Good on ya. Well said.

Charlie
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wrote in message

I can't see that any of your post makes sense in terms of the size of the beasts driven in the US. Exactly the same things about post WWII social and industrial conditions could be said about my country (and it's the same size as the US if you snip off Alaska) but we don't have the huge vehicles of the US. We have less that 10% of the population of the US and have only ever had a few railways and have always had to drive.

Nothing at all, except that he was in fact black. That pushes buttons in your head but for me, it just says that his skin was black. Really black skin is such a novelty here (and he was that glorious, glossy, bluey looking black) that his colour came back to me as I wrote.
The non-knuckle draggers here are

I can understand that given your history. The danger of doing that is to try to bury things that need discussing for a wide variety of reasons. And if you don't how how the knuckle draggers think then their attitudes can't be addressed. I think silence is dangerous and smacks of censorship. Whether you like it or not, the ability to say what one want's within the bounds of the laws of sedition and defamation are still the hallmarks of democracy.
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G'day again, we had our "peak oil" in the early 70's. Until then gas sold for 25 cents a gallon. So we had domestic producers who encouraged over consumption. Sort of like our food producers now.

The bothersome part is that the "fact" that he is black adds nothing to the anecdote and it hold the door open to the interpretation that people with dark skin have unrealistic self-images. I don't want to go through that door but I think you know what I mean. The media molds self-image in this country. Women see that on TV they are supposed to be young, thin, and defer to men. Black people see that they are supposed to be hip and street wise. Oh, and don't forget sing and dance. White, aging, pot bellied men are taken for granted, not a very high bar.
Racism and sexism are so ingrained into American consciousness that many well meaning American don't even recognize that valuing a white male over a woman or a minority is bigotry.
If I was black, I would want to get out of this country for a while and go to a country that is predominately black, where I wouldn't have to think about any perceived slight as race based. Here, everyday, if you you have dark skin, every day you have to weigh whether you are being treated the same as a light skinned person because, as numerous studies show, you're not. I forget the author's name but I remember an interview with a man from South Africa who was considered a very bright student. In Jamaica, he was considered a man with a future. In New York, he discovered he was a n***er. Welcome to the freakin' Twenty-First Century.
If you read Howard Zinn's book, "The People's History of the United States" you find that indentured European servants and slaves from Africa enter-acted easily and made a common front against the masters. Racism had to be inculcated to separate white slaves from making alliances with black slaves. Hopefully, within a couple of hundred years, if we survive our foolishness, we will be a mostly brown, almond eye'd people, and then we will have to find another way to distinguish ourselves into first and second class citizens.

No discussion is necessary. We have lived with this problem for four hundred years. We have freakin' talked this sucker to death. What we need is more interaction, so that we can see each others humanity instead of just the hue of the skin. We need more Bella Abzugs on TV (an opinionated, out-spoken, old lady in outlandish hats, and much, much more) to change our national, mental image of what a woman can be. What we need is for all the geezers and geezerettes of what ever hue, to get together for ribs, pizza, and beer. Oh yeah, bring you gay friends while your at it. We'll call it, "Pot Bellies for Humanity". (end of rant)
On the brighter side, you can content yourself with the knowledge that your days are getting longer now, while ours are getting shorter.
And the beat goes on.
Have a good one,
--
Billy
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Which is pretty silly given that food can't be produced or transported without fuel.

As I said, it may do that to you, but it doesn't to me. I saw a black man and he made a silly comment. His comment would have been just as silly if he'd been any colour given his size. I commented on his colour only because I had also noticed the attractiveness of his skin and because it was his unusualness (to me) and that made me pay attention to him.
And anyone who thinks that colour has anything to do with self delusion regardless of race, nationality, gender or whatever, has got to have rocks in their head.
I don't want to go through

I do know what you mean, but I don't think you know what I mean.
You are viewing it from the position of someone who lives, and has probably always lived, in a country with a very difficult (to put it mildly) race relation history with regard to those of African descent. And you have probably always been alert to it. Just as I am alert to what occurs to Aboriginals in my society.
I would similarly have noticed if the person was a native American, or a Hippy (of any gender) or a white male with a strong Appalachian accent or an rich Country Club type matron. The reason why I would have noticed these people specifically is because they are so different to the people I see around me. If he (or she) had been a white New Yorker, I possibly wouldn't have stopped to listen to what they said. The accent or appearance or colour would not have been sufficiently different or unique to my experience for me to bother with their views.
I'm aware that such a comment might get you frothing at the mouth, but if you think about how America reacted to the death of Steve Irwin (the Crocodile Hunter) and apply it to my situation then you might begin to understand what I'm on about.
I went out to dinner about a month after Irwin's death and there were about a heap of people at the table and only one of them (me) had known at the time of his death who Steve Irwin was. Steve Irwin wasn't even a blip on the radar for all these Australians. Contrast that with his profile in the US. Irwin's death was a BIG item in the US because his Ocker persona was so different to the people you see around you that he pressed buttons for Americans because he was so unusual to your experience. The fat black bloke was a similar figure for me. Unusual and thus noteworthy and worth paying attention to (even if he subsequently said something dopy).
The media molds self-image

As it tries to do in all countries.
Women see that on TV they are supposed to be young,

I know that.

I know that too.

Yes, I've read a few of them.
I forget the author's name but I remember an interview

He would have been better to go to the UK given a somewhat better history of integration. Still not great but less problematic than the US as a destination.

That would make sense and especially if you compare what happened here to what you say happened between your "indentured servants" (who were in fact convicts) and the Black slaves.
Here, the convicts were always the lowest in the immigrant pecking order and that went down through several generations as they became 'ticket of leavers', the children became 'currency lads' etc etc. It wasn't till very recently that it became fashionable to come from convict stock. (And I know that many American don't even know about your own country's convict history, which astounds me somewhat).
If you are going to start a new world order (as in starting a colony in a foreign place from immigrant stock), there has to be an aspirational aspect to 'getting on' and climbing up (or feeling that one is climbing up) the social dung heap.
Later migrant have also all had their own way of judging or assessing how they were 'getting on' in their new country. In both our countries it can be seen in cities where neighbourhoods went from being Italian ones to subsequently being Vietmanese (or whatever) ones. The Italians got on and made money and moved to 'better' places and their place was taken by the next wave of immigrants etc.
In our modern world, the young want to 'be famous' apparently. They don't specify what they will do to achieve celebrity status they apparently just aspire to 'be famous'. Silly.

Ummmm. You have forgotten what you wrote. You are now defining the need for discussion to just applying to race. I was replying to the totality of your comment which includes much more than just race.
What we

And you don't think that discussion is a part of that? How can you possibly have interaction without discussion? Other than having a lot of sex of course, which I guess is a form of interaction and which will give you the duskiness and the almond eyes if enough of it goes on over time
We need more Bella Abzugs on TV

I know who she is. She always puts me in mind of the sadly departed Mo Mowlam.
What

Shudder. I can imagine nothing worse than pizza, ribs and beer. Make it the opera, a spin-in/bobbin lace day and a home made lemonade and you're on.

True but from now on the cold gets worse for a couple of months. Sigh.
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hyuk, enough space for me and bobby-jean, for gra'ma and grandpappy, bobby-jean junior, billy-jean, bobby-jo, cletus, joey-joe and joe-bob. Hyuk.
rob
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:-)) A friend who lived in the US for many years, and who still keeps up with things American was telling me about a review she read on US made vehicles that concentrated on drink/can holders. She said that the vehicle with the highest number of drink holders was 23 drink holders in one single vehicle where that vehicle was designed to carry (IIRC) 7 people. Neither of us could figure out why one would need more than one drink holder per person.
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wrote in message

hyuk, them there drinks holders are so you can put them there juggs on moonshine whiskey in. Hyuk.
rob
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wrote:

Sheeeit, man. They be advertisin' vehicles here in the US with heated and cooled cup holders. We have our prioritites straight, eh?
Charlie
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Last car I bought was in 92 . Sales guy told me about the cup holder twice in about 15 minutes . I wanted info concerning crash design. Well he started to tell me about the cup holder again and I said do you want to sell this car Obscenity head. I kid you not.
Seems distraction is a selling technique. 198 K and hoping for more. Toyota Corolla .
Bill
--

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<Charlie> wrote in message

Candidly, I'm a bit paranoid about food production for the masses. I'm bringing in another 12 yards of soil next year. My area can't support gardening for edible plants due to rocky conditions.
Where can I find inexpensive equivalent to railroad ties for a raised garden? Am using stacked and treated 4X4s now in a circumference of a small garden. Dave
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wrote:

I use rough cut cypress for my bed.....6"x5/4" x 12'......eight bucks apiece. Won't rot in contact with soil, bugs don't bother it. But I am feeling guilt over the destruction of cypress,
What about logs, smallish....stacked, drilled, and pinned with rebar?
Any availabilty in your area from tree trimmers, loggers, etc? Any sawmills around to get scrap slabs from?
Railroad ties will leach creosote, as will poles and treated lumber. Into your food.
G'luck Charlie
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wrote:

I overlooked the obvious in my suggestions to you.
What about raised beds with rock perimeters?
Charlie
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Yikes. Treated, as in pressure treated? As in, poison leaching into the food you are eating? RR ties wil be the same. Check out www.extension.iastate.edu/Publications/PM1033.pdf
Rocks or brick, OK. Lumber, OK. Maybe check out plasticized wood that is used for decks. Hay bales, OK. Mounded dirt, OK. Old porcelain bath tubs, OK but not pressure treated wood or RR ties, or old telephone poles.
--
Billy
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In article

General rule of thumb for me is if it won't rot not good.
Creosote a human carcinogen was a staple for RR ties, Piers and telephone poles. Sure it will keep ant's out of your house but. They used to make up a mix of Mercury and Lead to prevent rot which was fazed out about 1960. Used on sailing vessel mostly but when recycling wood , old wood remember it might be here due to poison. Lead paint works great but forty years later can cause brain damage. Leaded gas fazed out about 1968 but all those greens along the highway may be toxic.
Be careful out here:))
Bill
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<Charlie> wrote in message

One reason I put in a vege garden & polytunnel 18 odd months ago and have started to learn things far more intensively than when I had my last vege garden. Learn it now & it'll be there if/when I need it. I am dabbling with seed saving & green manuring as well should things go south.
The sudden spike in dairy prices has been good news for our dairy farmers. I saw a figure today suggesting $ NZ 2 billion extra this season. The reserve bank (who are fixated with inflation) is warning farmers to keep the money in their pockets least it fuels inflation. We are shortly getting bio-fuel plants here converting tallow, whey & waste cooking oil into bio-diesel & ethanol. We will get about 4% of our diesel needs & about 1% of our petrol substitutes this way. There is some technology to extract bio-diesel from algae grown on sewerage ponds. That would be useful for both municipal & farm based effluent. That'd give a reasonable % substitute for fossil diesel when it dissappears. Maybe at a guess 10-15%. That is a quite a generous figure a bio-fuel substitute for a fossil fuel.
Peak oil will come sometimes. We may have just had it, we may be in the centre of it now, it may be just around the corner or it may be 20 odd years away. Some will scoff & say we will never run out of oil as morw will be discovered as prices make it economically feasible to extract. ROFTL. and ROFTL again. Thats part of the point of peak oil. It is not only the possibility of oil running out, it is also the pricing out. Oil may be available however the price of it is likely to make intensive use infeasible, in my opinion. Using shit loads of oil through fuel & fertilisers, as described in this thread, are likely to go by the way.
If people want a handle on how things may go, I say may as the future is open, have a look at Cuba. They went through a peak oil exercise with the collapse of the Soviet Union, the loss of their primary export & import market and primary source of oil. Their economy contracted by about 30-40% I believe. The average Cuban lost a number of kilograms. The country adapted to the changes & severe pain by growing a large % of their food in allotments, went organic (because they had no access to pestidices & fertilisers) & focussed more on growing the islands food needs rather than import it. To that end they were mainly successful. Transport wise they went back to pedal & animal power in many cases. A legacy in Habana was the public transport system. They came out with things called Camellos (spanish for Camel). Massive articulated lorries pulling tractors that had been converted to seating. 200-300 people could fit in to a Camello. The Camellos are still running although due to be phased out with the arrival of buses from China. http://havanajournal.com/gallery/image_full/61 / http://havanajournal.com/gallery/image_full/62 /
I was there in March & found it a really interesting trip. Only did 3 weeks so not enough time to look closely at these types of things. I hope to go back for another look at some point.
rob
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