100 Pounds of Food/Year From a 12 Square Foot Plot?

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<Charlie> wrote in message

Potted it in one Charlie with vernacular use of the word.
It is no

Only some Yanks Charlie. Others have a brain, have sufficient education to know the difference between a germ and a virus and are absolutely delightful.
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If you think that population density has anythig to do with population distribution then you really need to get an education.
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FarmI wrote:

If you think that most of the population of Australia lives in cities you've never seen a city.
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--John
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Stupid, stupid man! I never mentioned that most Australians lived in cities. Learn to read for comprehension.
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wrote:

... whilst keeping in mind that a certain (rather large!) amount of organic produce isn't certified because the cost & hassle can be prohibitive & it's not necessarily ever going to be worth it to gain & keep certification (pay, pay, pay...)
in big cities, you simply are never going to get the best of organic produce unless you grow it yourself - same as any veg. it's mostly eaten locally where it's grown either with or without certification. the further something must travel, the less point to it all around, for everyone. lots of people in my town eat local food & i don't know of any which is actually officially certified (although that could be my ignorance) !!
naturally, bureaucracy and commodification ruin everything.
i'm pretty damn certain my veg is organic, but i'm not certified. i sell some stuff to another family, & they don't badger me for certification. which is just as well.
in other words, certification isn't _exactly_ the thing you're looking for. kylie
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You could just write down how you grow you food and sign it. Then the buyer would know what they had. Lie and your customers could nickel and dime you to death for false advertising or misrepresentation. Don't need no stinkin' certification;-)
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Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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yeah, of course. but, those people know me. hence no problem. :-)
chookie means to be aware of things labelled "organic" (etc) with no proof (certification) & no way to find out. which is a valid point in scurrilous, money-grubbing times where you have no idea who grew the product you're buying; but i was pointing out that NO certification doesn't necessarily mean it's NOT organic, iyswim. rather than the other way around :-) all the home-organic people would avoid the same soil additives etc that the certified organic people do - just haven't organised & paid for inspection, certification, etc.
but as i said, she's in the city. she doesn't eat our local food here (presumably!) which tends to come from someone you know or someone you know knows (or whatever), rather than all officially-certified & whatnot.
i wouldn't describe my hens' eggs as "organic", for example, because even though their veggies are organic (grown by me) their layer pellets aren't certified organic, so therefore presumably aren't, so therefore the eggs don't meet the criteria, so i wouldn't bother making that claim. (people who buy the eggs would probably know it's an unrealistic claim, anyway!!). kylie
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ah you've got me there!
i said corn syrup is rare (not "nonexistent" :-) you would most likely find it in imported processed things from time to time i think, but i can't comment because i don't buy that sort of thing much - i think it's in nutella for example, is it not?
processed australian food has cane sugar in it, as a rule (i buy as locally as is reasonable, so i do know that! ... is this a bad time to confess i've been known to buy french mustard & french jam? ;-)
i believe that fast food companies are obliged to supply a nutritional breakdown on their products (or in the store?), but i'm really not sure if that means the classic ingredients list by proportion _as well_. i have no idea about this because we never go to mcdonalds ever, & only to hungry jack's (as burger king is called) pretty rarely. because i feel quietly confident that hungry jack's is probably pretty much filth, i've never bothered to find out the exact contents (i just don't want to know ;-)
i'm under the impression that big fast-food enterprises tend to use local ingredients for most of their stuff (you couldn't possibly justify importing buns, lettuce, meat, etc for example) but when it comes to that scary snot-like substance they make thickshakes out of, i just don't know.
we don't grow much corn here at all, commercially. that which is grown is either sold fresh or canned or frozen afaik. in the north-east, there is A LOT of sugar cane grown. the whole ethanol thing was going to revolve around sugar cane here, rather than corn. (now that everyone worldwide is shocked at the really quite bad idea of giving up food-land to make bio-fuels instead, i am not sure what is happening there, but that wasn't your question anyway.) kylie
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Hey Kylie,
Don't know if this means much to ya, but Billy is one one of the good guys, as far as we yanks go, likely you already gathered this, though he takes a larger hat size than I, methinks. ;-)
I'll butt out now, just interjecting a good word for my cobber.
Care Charlie
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<Charlie> wrote in message

well, i thought that - he is being perfectly pleasant! ("ah, you've got me there" generally means "i'm not sure if i can answer your question or not" in my tiny world. with a secondary meaning (not intended in this case) of "you've beaten me, you cad!!"). just in case that was worrying you ;-)

who the hell ever says "cobber" any more??! jesus!! <g> kylie
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I think. The German counterpart is Nussnugat. We have already screwed up croissants and turned them into bread crescents.

and bring tears to your eyes. Both are good eats ;-))

on us here. Tasted like real meat but then again it was Germany. Classic American taste is no taste at all. Hold over from Puritan times I think. If it tasted good or pleased the flesh, it must be sinful because it distracts from our spiritual mission on Earth, which is to burn and kill the witches and heathen.

Here, in 'Merica, prepared foods usually list their ingredients in order of quantity from greatest to least. Water, and corn syrup are often among the first ingredients.
If you forget to answer it's OK. I'll probably forget again that I asked;-)
g'day
--

Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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oh get over yourself!!!! <g> the u.s. is not the ruination of civilisation everywhere ffs ;-) it doesn't have that much power.
Nutella was originally from France,

see above. nice croissants are available worldwide (3 cheers for the french!). of course it is laughable that americans call them crescents, but then, it doesn't keep me (or the french) up at night.

c'est a, exactement. i don't have a greenhouse problem with little imported treats from time to time if it's something really GOOD. new zealand does dairy very, very well & it's hard to know what to do sometimes which would be the "right" thing. sigh! it is a curse to be informed, sometimes.

also beware of sex - i have it on good authority that it may lead to DANCING.

yes, that is the standard practice. on a take-away product, though, that doesn't apply for some reason (for one thing, it's hardly practical).
Water, and corn syrup are often

for an equivalent here, that would be water & cane sugar. but at the end of the day, if you're eating loads of sugar or loads of corn syrup, it's probably an equally bad idea, really. however, i choose lovely sugar over creepy aspartame every time :-) kylie
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Not everywhere, just where I eat. We have this Ile de France Brie cheese, made in New Jersey and tastes like wax. The faux croissants are either wonder bread in crescent shapes, or dripping of oil (probably soy). Croissants that shatter into hundreds of toasted shards with a center of airy french bread are rare and not easily found. But having found one, Nutella, and Bonne Mamam are the perfect condiments to serve with them, along with a strong cup of coffee. (We call it French roast, the French call it Italian roast, and the Italians call it coffee.) No we haven't ruined it everywhere but most Americans never get a chance to taste what real food can be. We get new combinations of confected wheat, corn syrup and corn fractions, soy oil, and salt, and it gets called, new and improved.

One good sweat deserves another. You may like the Japanese DVD "Shall We Dance?"

Same here, restaurants and fast food vendors never tell you what your eating. A salad can have more calories than a 1/4 lb. hamburger with cheese.

You don't know that you've had enough. I would probably take the admittedly creepy aspartame over corn syrup. But then that is a lot like our election, choosing the least bad. I'm going to vote for some third party candidate because the Democrat will take California anyway, and to assure that a third party gets federal funds to stay viable. The Republicrats are an opportunistic embarrassment.

--

Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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what about people who know their food? what do they do? foodies might be a small proportion of the populace, but what are they eating? (imports???) what about the really good restaurants?
we are very lucky where we are: despite being in the country, you can get wonderful food, excellent local bread, etc etc. weird though it might sound, often in country australia the food is awful due to lack of foodies to up the ante. that seems to be changing a lot now, thank heavens, you can get a nice espresso in the most surprising places.
when bill bryson came to write his (only slightly erroneous) book about australia he remarked on how good the food was everywhere he went, which made me speculate that american food must really be woeful if he can get better stuff in a flyspeck town in woop-woop :-)
had a conversation with a lady online at a different group who was still huffy (several years after the event) that some frenchwoman in the u.s. had remarked that food is much better in france. i opined that, on the balance of probability, there was no chance that food was better in the u.s. & the frenchwoman must have been correct & she could get over it now. but her outrage and denial were not to be stopped :-)
she was from california where food is probably better.

it sounds a really bizarre substance.
I would probably take the

you too. i can't watch your videos as my dial-up is far too slow for video. kylie
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second in price to Napa, only because Bob Mondavi is such a great salesman. Crop value for grapes in Napa totaled $463 million last year. Total value of the 2007 grape crop in neighboring Sonoma County was $411 million. Thats based on a total crush of 197,714 tons and an average price of $2,081 per ton (That's over a $1/lb from the grower).
Two-thirds of all wine sold in the U.S. comes from California wineries. A total of 449 million gallons of California wine were sold in the U.S. in 2006 with an estimated retail value of $17.8 billion.
The value of California's grape harvest is second only to marijuana.
(December 18, 2006) California is responsible for more than a third of the cannabis harvest, with an estimated production of $13.8 billion that exceeds the value of the state's grapes, vegetables and hay combined and marijuana is the top cash crop in a dozen states, the report states.
Wineries pitch wine as an everyday accompaniment with meals, which has put considerable attention on food.
Presently, "Locavore" (eating locally grown fresh food) is the mantra among foodies and trend setters/followers. Whole grain, mixed grain, sprouted grain, and sour dough bread is easy to find but most comes from out of state, although there are at least a half dozen bakeries supported in the county. But is still isn't like France where it seems that there is a boulangerie every couple of blocks. The bread is good but it still isn't up to French or German standards. The French bread here has a tough crust (instead of crunchy) and the interior is too chewy. There is nothing like a German fnf corn brot:-(

ubiquitous Starbucks and their competition, here in Sonoma, but the expresso is of varying quality.

fresh. There is much pressure on the French worker now and their eating habits are trending towards American style but they are still conscious of quality. When they grab a mouth full and rush back to work, they know what they are missing. The 2 hour lunch breaks are pretty much history except in rural areas.
Before a much hated and reviled man ruined the value of the dollar, for $12 you could get a fixed price meal in France that included appetizer, entre, salad, dessert, cheese, and 500 ml of drinkable wine. I hate that bastard.
California is the principal grower of fruits and vegetables in the US but the routine level of quality in France and Germany is much higher. Our best and their best may be similar but not the average. France is still a nation of small farmers and they go to the local markets, which are held on different days in the different villages. So the producer still gets looked at, right in the eye.

of type II diabetes epidemic that we are having. That's not proof but an empirical data point.

if we are getting screwed and that we aren't all in this together as some would have liked to think. The other video is of the brutality of Israel towards the Palestinians. The Israelis want an ethnically pure nation, all of Palestine, on ground where other people have lived for centuries, a millennium in fact. The only way to do that, is to chase the inhabitants away. The Israelis have known that this was the price for their state, from the beginning. They are deadly serious about Arabs leaving Palestine.

I gotta go cook dinner. Hasta luego,
--

Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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The Napa valley reminds me of Australia. Similar shaped hills and that golden dry summer look.
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In article

Mt. St. Helena (not Mt. St. Helens), above Calistoga, is of volcanic origin. Clear Lake is the caldera. The valley broadens as you go south from Calistoga (region 3 for grape growing: cabernet, merlot, ect. ) to the city of Napa and the San Francisco Bay (region 1: chardonnay, and pinot noir).
It has long been assumed that California was called the "Golden State", because the lack of rain fall from May to October turned the hills a golden brown, and, of course, there was that thing at Sutter's Mill;-)
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Billy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg&ref=patrick.net

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Just because you can't do it, doesn't mean that I can't do it.
I went to a very small rural school. I went through 6 years in that school and there were never any blow ins - all long time residents descended from the people who first settled that area 100 years before.
I know that of those kids, 1 had polio, 1 got lead poisoning from lead water pipes, and 1 had an allergy to paspalum and got a rash each summer when the paspalum seeds came onto the plant (she'd dead now sadly). Other than that, the only illnesses were things like Chicken pox, measles and mumps and when they came, we took turns in getting them.
If anyone in our community went to the doctor, it was a topic of conversation as it had to be booked by using a manual exchange and our Post Mistress was the world's biggest blabbermouth. There were no secrets. Even now I could tell you which adults were having sex with other peoples spouses or who which men the women avoided and why. I could still name the one man in the village who was rumoured to be gay and why and how the one person who was left a huge amount of money by his parents over 50 years before I was born lost it all.
People always assume that kids don't take notice, or don't know what is going on, but we did. We still gossip about the past and people now long dead when we get together. For 6 years I sat next to and was good friends with the daughter of the woman who ran our phone exchange so I got all the gossip from her, and if she didn't tell me, her cousin did. For the next 6 years we had to travel together for 3 hours a day to get to high schools so the gossip still continued but our circle of contacts just got bigger.
It was a small closeknit community where all the people came from the one area of Ulster (both Protestant and Catholic) and they cleared and settled the land and then stayed there. Even now as I research in Ulster, I can rattle the names off the top of my head that I knew as I grew up and that I know I willl see in the records of Ulster.
I knew what the diseases were and I still do, just don't ask me what I did yesterday.

I'm sure you don't have any idea how ludicrous that sounds. However, if you are paying such close attention to the lumps and bumps in the clothes of the children in your neigbourhood then I'm certain that you will shortly be arrested.

So you have a good knowledge of the children in my area too? Your fascination with children has gone iternational has it?

I don't own any donkeys. We only ever had horses on this farm.
Speaking of horses, you certainly know how to make yourself sound like a complete horse's arse.

You are sadly transparent and obvious. Your real reason for posting is that you are upset that America and American's are not seen universally as being the great people some of them think they are.
That's fine by me. I don't care if you chose to sound like a pedaphile. I also don't care what you say about Australia or Australians. I don't suffer from cultural cringe and I certainly don't care if you still do.

I'm highly amused too. I find it amusing that you seem to be too obtuse to notice that you sound like a pedophile. I also find it amusing that you obviously don't know about the convict history of America.
I'm also amused at your ignorance of the name for the nation of origin of the convicts.
I'm even amused by the fact that you know nothing about the geographic distribution of the population of my country. However I'm not surprised by it because you've proven repeatedly how ignorant you are in post after post.
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Do try using some facts. The Black Death or Bubonic Plague was not 'due' to, 'germs'. It is an infection which entered the bodies of the victims when they were bitten by fleas. Smallpox is not spread or caused by germs. It is a virus.
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FarmI wrote:

So being bitten by a flea which containes no plague germs gives one plague? And a virus is not a germ? Do tell.
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--John
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