Warranty?


Went to Comet with son $ partner who want a new electric cooker for their new home.
"And 79 installation" quoth the man, "and we'll take the old one away"
There isn't an old one.
"I can install it for you " I told son (and, indeed, I can: I worked on Eastern Electricity a few years ago, I have a degree in Electrical and Electronic Engineering, and I am perfectly capable of safely commissioning and connecting a new cooker to an existing, adequate, cooker point).
"That would invalidate the manufacturer's warranty" (because I am not "registered") was the response from the droid.
Quite apart from the fact that *anybody* can do electrical work if they are able (recent changes mean they must have it inspected on completion) - surely he was incorrect concerning the potential invalidation of any warranty?
We did not purchase......
-- Ian
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It depends upon whether the warranty contained this as a condition. A warranty can say almost anything. It would not of course affect in any way your rights under the Sale of Goods Act to seek rectification from the supplier.
If it could be shown that inadequate installation had caused a fault then the supplier is under no obligation to rectify it at their cost. They could not evade that responsibility however simply by saying it wasn't fitted by someone "approved" in some way.
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wrote:

It can't as such even invalidate the standard warranty unless any fault was directly related to the fitting of the appliance. If they offer any extended warranty, they can however stipulate fitting restrictions, but this only applies to the extended part of the warranty.
Of course some manufacurers/retailers try it on, but a swift letter to their service deptarment informing them of legal action usually clears any log jam.
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wrote:

Yes it can. There is no requirement to supply any warranty at all with any purchase but if one is supplied it can say pretty much what it likes.
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BR AD P, p8, "Additional Notes" "a. Notifiable jobs include NEW circuits back to the CU, and EXTENSIONS to circuits in kitchens and special locations" "b. Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally NOT notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location, or associated with a special installation" "f. Detached garages and sheds are NOT special locations. Work within them is notifiable ONLY if it involves NEW outdoor wiring" "m. The fitting and replacement of cookers and electric showers is NOT notifiable unless a NEW circuit is needed"
If you damage the cable in replacing the cooker: - Table 1 p8 "Works that need NOT be notified to building control bodies" - "Replacing the cable for a single CIRCUIT only, where damaged" - BS7671 definition of circuit is "an assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s)" - A circuit is not a single cable
Damaged can be mechanical, chemical, thermal etc - UV to overheated in loose terminals.
If your cooker is substantially more powerful: - Cookers have a ratings plate, but circuit calculations use a Diversity Calculation - A diversity calculation means a seemingly 45A cooker is supplied by 32A fuse & cable - However a very high power cooker may need an upgrade of fuse & cable & wiring accessory
Conversely when replacing a shower, a 45A shower draws 45A - no diversity is allowed.
Note any "registered installer" need not comply with BS7671. They need only provide work that is safe in the "reasonable" view of a court.
Just posted for completeness re thread title.
BTW, try John Lewis - you may get a longer warranty for free and price- matching. Comet will get you someone selling commission based insurance / finance / installation / bum-wiping / wallet-valet.
You can install *anything* you want - just some work requires BC notification. That is it. Beware idiot-at-delivery quoting SI2004, it is SI2006 and throw them out.
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No it can't. There is that clause that always accompanies a warranty which states something along the lines of "This does not affect your statutory rights" You have the right - as the householder, and personal held responsible by your mortgage company (if you have one) and home insurers - to have something like a cooking or heating appliances fitted by who you deem to be the best person for the job, the warranty company can only insist this person to be accredited according to regulations.
If it were to cause a fire your insurers would want to know who *YOU* appointed to undertake the work, the company carrying the warranty would not be interested at all, the only people likely to be slightly shaken would be the installers who can employ whoever they want, and who may only have been given a couple of days training on undertaking such fittings(!), as it will be the 'company' that is liable and who issues the certificate of compliance with current electricity and building regulations etc etc. Therefore their installer may not be the best person as far as your insurers are concerned. Indeed my insurers - in light of the new regulations - say that all electrical work must be undertake by a qualified/certified electrician, so as to see the installers personal certification!
There is no reason whatsoever for a warranty to be refused if the appliance is correctly installed. Furthermore, it is not up to you to issue any kind of certificate to say that it has been correctly installed, the warranty would stand and may only be revoked should an inspection - following a claim - conclude that there was a problem with the installation that contributed to the fault.
Why is it done this way? Well, I could have someone install my cooker and hold in my hand a certificate and nice warranty card. then a month or so later decide to refloor my kitchen and think "Three wires...what can go wrong?" disconnect the cooker, do my floor, then connect it up again but perhaps there's a stray wire, or I haven't tightened the screws up enough. whatever, Something goes wrong and I call out the engineers who will say "You've been tampering, your warranty is invalid" to which I would say "I have a piece of paper signed by your man to say he installed it" Thereinafter a battle ensues.
However, had I got a man out to unplug the cooker and the connect it again, the warranty company would take matters up with him and you'd get your repairs done as long as you satisfy the warranty company that you did all you could to ensure it was correctly installed.
Ron
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On Wed, 11 Nov 2009 12:07:04 -0000, "Ron O'Brien"

Your statutory rights and any warranty rights you might have are quite different and are usually against two entirely different organisations. Your statutory rights are always against the seller, any warranty rights are against the warranty issuer - often the manufacturer or distributor.

Would you care to point out where this "responsibility" is defined?

No. The warranty supplier can for example require fitting to be done by a specific company in order to activate the warranty. If you chose not to use that company then you can lose your warranty protection no matter how well the job is done This of course will have no effect upon your statutory protection or any claim you can make against the _seller_

You have very odd insurers.

That seems unlikely as there is no legal requirement for any person doing installation to require any certification whatsoever.

You are mixing up your statutory and warranty rights. For warranty rights the warranty contract is what matters if it states installation must be done by Fred Bloggs then if Fred Bloggs doesn't do it you have no claim _under the warranty_.

It isn't.

So? It makes no difference if the installation fault is through later work or the initial installation. Whatever certificates you might have, if someone called out under the Warranty finds a feed wire loose then the repair isn't covered by the Warranty (unless installation is included as part of the Warranty scheme).

Absolute rubbish. If the fault was in the installation, for example the supply wiring done incorrectly, you have no recourse either under any Warranty or as a Sale of Goods Act claim against the supplier (unless they installed it). Any case you might have for faulty workmanship would be between you and the person you employed to do the work.
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Order from Sainsburys on line - last year my oven was about 20% cheaper than Comet and arrived earlier than Comet could do ...and no hassle from salesmen!
Peter
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This was like the time that I returned my Acer laptop to the Tech Guys under warrenty to get the webcam fixed. I had it returned to me minus the blanking disc for the PCI slot. I phoned them and asked the to send it up to me but they replied that I had to send the laptop down to them because if I was to insert the disc then it would invalidate the warranty. I then asked the "tech" if I had invalidated the warranty myself by removing the disc and inserting a TV tuner into the slot and vice versa. He couldnt tell me.
Twit.
McKevvy
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Ian wrote:

It may invalidate the manufacturer's warranty, but it wouldn't affect your son's consumer rights unless faulty installation could be shown to have caused a problem. Just tell them you're having it installed by a local chap who's fully qualified for such work, but it can't be done until you've finished decorating the kitchen. Then DIY when you get home.
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BR AD P, p8, "Additional Notes" "a. Notifiable jobs include NEW circuits back to the CU, and EXTENSIONS to circuits in kitchens and special locations" "b. Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally NOT notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location, or associated with a special installation" "f. Detached garages and sheds are NOT special locations. Work within them is notifiable ONLY if it involves NEW outdoor wiring" "m. The fitting and replacement of cookers and electric showers is NOT notifiable unless a NEW circuit is needed"
If you damage the cable in replacing the cooker: - Table 1 p8 "Works that need NOT be notified to building control bodies" - "Replacing the cable for a single CIRCUIT only, where damaged" - BS7671 definition of circuit is "an assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s)" - A circuit is not a single cable
Damaged can be mechanical, chemical, thermal etc - UV to overheated in loose terminals.
If your cooker is substantially more powerful: - Cookers have a ratings plate, but circuit calculations use a Diversity Calculation - A diversity calculation means a seemingly 45A cooker is supplied by 32A fuse & cable - However a very high power cooker may need an upgrade of fuse & cable & wiring accessory
Conversely when replacing a shower, a 45A shower draws 45A - no diversity is allowed.
Note any "registered installer" need not comply with BS7671. They need only provide work that is safe in the "reasonable" view of a court.
Just posted for completeness re thread title.
BTW, try John Lewis - you may get a longer warranty for free and price- matching.
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wrote:

BR AD P, p8, "Additional Notes" "a. Notifiable jobs include NEW circuits back to the CU, and EXTENSIONS to circuits in kitchens and special locations" "b. Replacement, repair and maintenance jobs are generally NOT notifiable, even if carried out in a kitchen or special location, or associated with a special installation" "f. Detached garages and sheds are NOT special locations. Work within them is notifiable ONLY if it involves NEW outdoor wiring" "m. The fitting and replacement of cookers and electric showers is NOT notifiable unless a NEW circuit is needed"
If you damage the cable in replacing the cooker: - Table 1 p8 "Works that need NOT be notified to building control bodies" - "Replacing the cable for a single CIRCUIT only, where damaged" - BS7671 definition of circuit is "an assembly of electrical equipment supplied from the same origin and protected against overcurrent by the same protective device(s)" - A circuit is not a single cable
Damaged can be mechanical, chemical, thermal etc - UV to overheated in loose terminals.
If your cooker is substantially more powerful: - Cookers have a ratings plate, but circuit calculations use a Diversity Calculation - A diversity calculation means a seemingly 45A cooker is supplied by 32A fuse & cable - However a very high power cooker may need an upgrade of fuse & cable & wiring accessory
Conversely when replacing a shower, a 45A shower draws 45A - no diversity is allowed.
Note any "registered installer" need not comply with BS7671. They need only provide work that is safe in the "reasonable" view of a court.
Just posted for completeness re thread title.
BTW, try John Lewis - you may get a longer warranty for free and price- matching.
------------------
Thanks - will indeed recommend JL to son.
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