gas fires that have no flue

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B and Q are doing a selection of wall hung *flueless* gas fires.
We had those tv ads a while ago saying how dangerous your gas fire was if the chimney was blocked. We are also warned about providing sufficent ventilation for gas fires.
Would someone be able to explain to a novice what is happening to the noxious fumes that we are warned about, when the gas fires is flueless?
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A furnace probably runs >100k BTU/h. A water heater >60K BTU/H. A ventless heater is more likely 30K or less. [some are 5K] Less BTU=less combustion=less CO.
That said--- you can still kill yourself with CO if you put one in a space too small for it. A 30K in a small bedroom should kill you the first night.
Jim
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wrote:

Where do you get your information from? Or are you just guessing?
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On 2/24/2010 6:39 AM, john hamilton wrote:

These heaters have shut off sensors if oxygen gets too low or carbon monoxide is generated in excess. You can live with the carbon dioxide and water that complete combustion generates. Personally these heaters make me nervous as who wants to be sleeping if the safety overrides fail?
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You breathe them, You hope the Oxygen Depletion and your Co sensors all work, you hope your house is loose enough to breath out the poisons induced into your home, or you don`t worry or think and call it the Flue if it affects you. But if you only run it a few hours a day in a non super sealed house it should be ok. Like running the gas oven or having all the stove burners on. I would not want one, there is to much indoor pollution anyway in winter, in a garage for short periods it would be ok, but Ng contains alot of water that will raise the humidity where these are used.
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Also, it depends on what you mean by gas fires. There are ventless gas fireplaces that are not designed to provide heat, but mainly for visual appeal. Consequently, I would think they would use less gas, be less of a potential hazard and more common. Other units are designed to actually provide heat. Some states do not allow them because of safety concerns.
You need to do your own due diligence and figure out how comfortable you are with whatever gas fire you are talking about.
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On Feb 24, 7:49am, snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net wrote:

Isnt ventless outlawed in some or most of Canada?
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Ng contains alot of water
Is that the opposite of alittle water?
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CO will quickly combine with oxygen in the air to produce carbon dioxide. The CO problem occurs when all the oxygen in the room is used up and the CO builds to dangerous levels. Therefore, small amounts of CO in a vented room should not, theoretically, be a problem.
I wouldn't want one though!
TonyB
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john hamilton wrote:

There are no noxious fumes from a properly-operating gas flame.
That there COULD be something dangerous is what gets some Chicken-Little types all exercised.
In the years before central heating was common, millions of families got along quite well, without mishap, by using gas space heaters. There were gas outlets in every room, much like electrical outlets today.
Before that, when gas lighting was the norm, the flames were actually DESIGNED to generate Carbon monoxide. That is, gas lights depended on incomplete combustion to generate a yellow flame rather than the complete-combustion blue flame like you see on today's gas ranges.
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Probably one of the reasons life expectancy was far less in the old days ;)
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wrote:

Probably one of the reasons life expectancy was far less in the old days ;)
These fires have a catalytic converter which converts all harmfull gases into carbon dioxide and water vapour and they are said to be 100% efficient. How much water vapour it produces into the room they dont say.
Bill.1
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-snip-

Actually infant mortality is what made it *appear* that folks died young 'in the old days'.

My 20K ventless does not steam up the windows in the room where it resides. If it is below 0F it runs most of the time. A shower in the adjacent bathroom -- or boiling a pot of pasta on the stove in the other adjacent room will steam up the windows.
Jim
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All thats left is more Co and less oxygen, to much Co and yr dead, not enough oxygen and yr dead, and you think the built in sensors dont fail? There is a reason some localities have banned them, ill give you a hint, people have died using them. And I guarntee they wont make you feel better healthwise.
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they'll be going out the 3 or 4 foot square vents the BG service bod put in when he came round for the anual service call wont they.
prolly as good at warming a room up as those open fronted fake coal gas fires with a fan to suck the gasses out a horizontal flue, mum's got one of them, looks nice but im sure room gets colder with it on due to the fan, and not very realistic with the sound of a small turbine whining away behind the grate.
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A flueless gas fire was been fitted to a house refurb I was working on last week. I believe it had an output of 3kW. I guess that the 100cm2 vent that was installed will let more cold air in than the fire can heat.
Adam
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On Thu, 25 Feb 2010 08:10:32 GMT, "ARWadsworth"

W is the abbreviation for Watts in the US [most of the folks on alt.home.repair are American]. What does it represent there?
If you meant 3000BTU/H, the folks would do better to turn a burner on their range on. I have one that produces 10K BTU/H.

Maybe ventless are different in the UK than in the states. My 30K BTU/H ventless has no connection to the outside. It uses inside air for combustion. It produces less CO than my kitchen range with 4 burners and the oven going. And it is in a bigger room.
Jim
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wrote:

watts.
3000W = 10238BTU/hr

We just bought a set of ventless gas logs for the fireplace; 8kW (or 37000BTU/hr).
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-snip-
Thanks for that. I've never seen watts used to measure heat except in electric heaters. Might be our 'common language' - or it might just be that I haven't spent a lot of time reading about heat lately.
Jim
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wrote:

I guessed that alt.home.repair was mainly used in America, the original post was cross posted with free.uk.diy.home.
Gas ovens, gas hobs, gas boilers all seem to be measured in kW in the UK.
The flueless gas fires seem more to be for display than actual heating over here. krw's 8kW fire looks like it is meant to actually heat things up and not just look pretty.
Adam
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