External telephone wiring and ADSL

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I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it, one doesn't.
I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks, routers et al)
I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit will be level along its length!
Thus, I have found this site :
http://www.tlc - direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Telephone_Cable_External/
(http://tinyurl.com/ajkjk )
... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)
Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due consideration to ADSL filtering etc?
To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.
Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per extension aren't they?
TIA.
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On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:40:03 +0100, RolYat

It is assumed that only a couple of telephones are to be installed in the summerhouse and that you don't intend to use the telephone service to connect a modem at the remote end. In which case it seems suprising that you won't consider the use of DECT phones which seem the obvious solution.
I wonder about the telephone cable you have selected; it seems odd that there is no mechnical protection to the "service wires" which would suggest that it is not designed to be burried. If it was not buried relatively deeply it could be very easily be damaged.
David Bradley
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snipped-for-privacy@spamless.co.uk ...

The problem is .... the ADSL line is the line that *must* run to the summerhouse, as this is into what the router will plug.
I will also be using one of the lines for a FAX sending service via the PC.
The 2nd line /could/ be DECT, but this would mean the base unit (there is only the base and one handset) would remain indoors some distance away. Convenience factor equals put it on the desk in front of me i'm afraid, and running it down the same cable seemed a good idea.

It won't be buried ... it will be 'pinned' to the side of a house, and then run along the side bearer of some decking. Very inaccessible, and very unlikely to suffer damage from digging et al.
If it is a suited cable that will be sited away from potential damage issues, then is it the right one?
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...

Why not put the router in the house and run a few lengths of CAT5..? You can use the spare pairs in a CAT5 cable for a phone, so a couple of runs will give you two computer outlets and two phone outlets.
Ivor
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when I can have one cable, with 2 lines 'in' it and the router conveniently where I am situated?
Thanks for the suggestion, but I am trying to achieve having as less cable running along the side of the house as is possible, without the need for conduit etc to keep costs down.
Can I run CAT5 outside, along a wall which faces the way the weather generally comes from? Is normal CAT5 weather proof?
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...

Weather proof as long as the outer casing isn't damaged, and the open ends aren't exposed to the elements. Good quality Grey insulated CAT5 is pretty well resistant to UV light as well, so it does stand up to being outside OK.
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BigWallop wrote:

Depends on how long it's outside & which way the wall is facing. Unless the cable is actually labelled external then the colour doesn't make any difference...
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Run it in black 20mm conduit then. BTW colour can help with stopping cable insulation breaking down as certain pigments will absorb uv, colour pigments such as black and grey sheath will contain a certain amount of black pigment.
Dave
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On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 14:33:59 +0100, RolYat

I have several ells of it running along the outside of various bits of my house, where I couldn't get under floorboards when cabling up. It'll degrade over time, same as any cable but will last years unless I nick it with pruning shears or something. The end points need to be in waterproof containments however (mine all run back inside the house to RJ45 faceplates).
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wrote:

OK, question answered, but i am, after all, only trying to actually get 2 telephone line extensions outside and not specifically network PC's.
However, thereafter, I will/would like to plug the router into one of the extensions, as i do now inside the house, which will enable me to run a PC in the SOHO on ADSL, and plug in a wireless access point so i can, when it gets brass monkey cold outside, sit inside the house with my laptop and connect wirelessly, if neccesary plugging the current DECT telephone units inside again.
The question is, will the cable i originally specified allow me to 'run' 2 lines down the same wire? I am, again, only trying to achieve having 'run of the mill' telephone extensions in the summerhouse/SOHO into which I happen to want to plug a router.
The cable is described as external, which to me, suggests it will last a tad longer than a reel of B&Q telephone extension wire...
I can't help feeling some of the replies thus far, whislt very appreciative of them, are over complicating matters. I have 2 lines; I want 2 extensions of said lines to run to an outside building, and for the sake of neatness (and to some degree cost) I'd like to run them down the same cable instead of conduit .... after which i want to plug my ADSL equipment in, as I would do were I running an extension to a different room in the house.
It seems straightforward to me (as in simply wiring new extensions in the house) the only difference is, I want to use one cable to accommodate 2 lines/extensions.
Sorry if that comes across as arrogant sounding in respect of some of the answers so far given, but c'est la vie, and I do appreciate the advice nonetheless.
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Have a look on this site for all the answers you want: http://www.wppltd.demon.co.uk/WPP/Wiring/UK_telephone/uk_telephone.html
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Remove the grit to reply
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On Wed, 1 Jun 2005 22:57:35 +0100, "PutridStench"

The original post has long gone, so I don't know what the cable is. However if it has four or more cores arranged in twisted pairs, then the answer is yes. If it has less than four cores then no, and if they're not in twisted pairs, then the answer may still be no, as untwisted pairs will interfere with each other electronically and you may get impaired performance / loss of modem synch.

You may think so, but CAT5 really is the ideal cable for this. Its cheap, designed for carrying telecoms signals, and sturdy.
By the way, unless you can clip the cable to a solid brick wall for the entire length, you'd be /strongly/ advised to put it in cable duct. Nothing more annoying than sticking a garden spade through your cable.
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wrote:

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Telephone_Cable_External /
Yes, but, so is the cable in question i want to use. CAT5 isn't in itself designed for external use, and I would have the additional cost of conduit, plus the faffing around of fixing it all up. Cable clipping the cable to the wall that I want to use seems the better option. I simply want to be able to get a telphone extension outside, as opposed to inside as it is now.

I have just such a brick wall, then the cable will disappear under decking, and pop up into the summerhouse.
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"I have just such a brick wall, then the cable will disappear under decking, and pop up into the summerhouse."
WELL DO IT THAT WAY THEN !!!!! No-one here is going to stop you.
But what cable are you going to use? What is the best type of terminal box to connect to the cable? What's the best way to prevent interference on the new extension? Will the interference, even the slightest bit, interfere with the ADSL signal?
They've all been answered in the thread, some of the questions have been answered many times. All the info' you need to make this job good, and to have it work as perfectly as this type of thing can, has all been answered in this thread. But you still sound as though you haven't read any of it. Or, have you read it all, but don't understand parts of it?
If you do need anything information in the thread clarified, then I'm sure the person giving the info' will oblige with a more simple explanation for you. They will, I'm sure, even talk you through the whole thing until the job is complete.
Good luck with it. Please let us know how it goes.
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Thus far I've ben told to use CAT5 more than anything because folk seem to think my primary reason for wanting *telephone* extensions is computer networking.
I have explained I would *prefer* one wire, one which was suitable for external use; i highlighted one that i felt would do the job, that is specifically designed for telephone, but i wanted to know if I could run 2 lines down the same wire, whether or not it would affect my ADSL if I did, and that i wanted to avoid conduit due to additional cost and DIY time and trouble fixing it.

Why should I get any more intereference using an external telephone extension that I do using an internal one for my ADSL? I have 2 lines coming down one bit of wire from the BT pole to my house ..... the wiring of extensions in my house is all DIY, and works fine.
I just want to know if the cable I have seen will do the job.

The latter, in part, and likewise, some of those who have replied haven't understood, or realised, my actual aim.

But if i ask for clarification, or oppose an answer because someone suggests using CAT5 and conduit when I specified I didn't want to, you'll accuse me of not reading their reply - rock and hard place or what.
You sound like you are pissed off with the thread, the questions I'm asking, and the general subject matter?

In other words, STFU, get on with it, and if you do screw up, maybe someone will bail you out, but it won't be you.
Have a good weekend yourself mate .....
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On Fri, 3 Jun 2005 23:04:33 +0100, "PutridStench"

No, you've been told CAT5e because its probably the best cable for the job of carrying a telecommunications signal. If you choose to ignore that advice, or misinterpret it, or dislike it, thats up to you. You can use 2.5mm mains cable or piano wire for all we care.

Cat5e is good for this.

You need to mention it again, your original post is long gone.

if it has two sets of twisted-pair cores then yes.

If its not twisted pair, then you can expect a long line length to introduce interference. See below for the effect.

Wall-mounted RJ11/RJ45 faceplates, inside a dry building. Avoid termination and joints outdoors.

Don't run it close to mains electrical cables, especially ones with transient loads on (fluorescent lights, dimmer switches etc). Use twisted pair cable (like f'rinstance cat5e...). Ideally use shielded twisted pair tho this is more expensive.

Yes, but how much it will matter will depend on how much. Its a digital signal. Some interference is ok, more will lose the entire signal.

No special reason, it depends on the environment .Remember tho that its exposed to the elements, more likely to get wet / uv damaged etc, hence more chance of leakage between lines.

Hmm, doesn't this mean you've been DACSed? Did you have trouble getting DSL in the first place? Anyway BT can do this because they've got special kit. You can't.

Tell us what it is.

Most of us have. You've just not understood, or chosen to misunderstand, the answers. Synopsis:
1) you need four conductors to carry two telephone signals (strictly you need six, but if all your phones have their own ringer capacitors, you'll get away with four in most cases).
2) Cat5e is good for long-extensions with multiple circuits on, as its better shielded, and has lots of wire pairs.
3) To avoid interference, use twisted-pair cable, keep away from other electcical conductors & devices, and keep the cable dry.

just because you impose boundary conditions which some consider unrealistic, doesn't mean people can't keep telling you a better way to do it... and bear in mind not everyone contributing to the thread saw your original post (I don't think I did).

Oh, for goodness sake. How about it means exactly what it says?
And FWIW, I personally really am fed up with you. You've been told how to do this, you won't listen or understand, or don't like the answer. So like a petulant child, you ask the question again, more angrily, in the hope that you'll get an answer you do like, even if it is the wrong one. And then you get upset when people start getting cross with you.

it certainly won't now, will it? Not when you behave like that.
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On Sat, 4 Jun 2005 09:00:12 +0100, "PutridStench"

I beg your pardon, but you started it. I originally posted advice which was correct based on what I'd read in the thread, and you raged against it. Doesn't bother me. In this particular reply, I originally posted a considerable amount of comment on your chosen cable, explaining how to use it, its suitability, things to watch out for etc. But I got to this point and thought, what a tosser, screw him, he can whistle for his help.
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And [tempting as it may be to not aid the anonymous ingrate] external grade Cat5e is readily available, <http://www.netshop.co.uk/productcategorydetail.aspx?categoryidQ540 for example.
--
Bob Evans

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Everybody calm down! - Please?

This cable will be fine for the job you want to do.
As it states.. It is external grade telecomms cable.
However, be aware it is Petroleum Jelly filled. This is messy to work with, and flammable. PLEASE limit the length of this cable you run internally. - Preferably to less than two metres within either building.
Can someone comment on any regs. regarding this? I believe the BT recommendation is 1.5 metres??
HTH, Phil Partridge snipped-for-privacy@pebbleGRIT.demon.co.uk Remove the grit to reply
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