External telephone wiring and ADSL

[RolYat]

I have 2 BT lines/numbers into my house .... one has ADSL enabled on it, one doesn't.

I need to run both lines out to a new summerhouse in the garden, I _do not_ want to go down any wireless options (DECT, wireless networks, routers et al)

I can of course run 2 separate cables from each BT Master Socket in the house (which are literally side by side) conduited along the route the cable needs to take, terminating in the usual (B&Q, Homebase etc) BT type sockets at the other end, however, I fear this will be both time consuming and more costly, as I have to consider conduit purchase and fixing. Given my DIY drilling skills, I can't also imagine the conduit will be level along its length!

Thus, I have found this site :

... which shows (as I see it) 10 different wires (5 pairs)

Am I right I could effectively wire both lines down this cable, and not have any issues with my voice or ADSL lines, so long as I give due consideration to ADSL filtering etc?

To all intents and purposes, I'm just adding another telephone extension for each line (not adding any more kit incidentally, REN value taken into consideration) which I would like to run down one specific cable.

Is this that cable? Is 5 pairs enough? Only 3 wires are used per extension aren't they?

TIA.

[David Bradley]

[snip]

It is assumed that only a couple of telephones are to be installed in the summerhouse and that you don't intend to use the telephone service to connect a modem at the remote end. In which case it seems suprising that you won't consider the use of DECT phones which seem the obvious solution.

I wonder about the telephone cable you have selected; it seems odd that there is no mechnical protection to the "service wires" which would suggest that it is not designed to be burried. If it was not buried relatively deeply it could be very easily be damaged.

David Bradley

[Andrew Gabriel]

What sort of distance are we talking about here?

Personally, I would not run any Cat 3 cable anywhere nowadays. I would put in a number of Cat 5e runs, which you can use for phone or network (and an increasing number of other purposes).

It should work OK.

Actually, you should run only 1-pair per extension over a shared cable like this, interconnecting pins 2 and 5 only, and use master sockets rather than extension sockets at the far end to recreate the bell wire on pin 3.

You need to think where your ADSL filter(s) go. You could have one filter at the BT master socket handling all the extensions and carry the ADSL signal in a 3rd pair, although the premises cable total length might degrade the ADSL signal more than multiple ADSL filters would.

However, as I said earlier, I would run a number of Cat5e cables rather than running any Cat 3.

[BigWallop]

You need a good quality twisted-pair cable, or CAT5 if you can get it, and make sure that all connections are tight. Try not to make tight bends in the cable if a natural bend can be made. So don't hammer it in to corners.

Twisted pair cable can be any amount of pairs, and the best one to choose is up to you on price. If wiring as an extension from the master sockets, then you will need ringer wiring to the two new sockets as well as line wiring. Which means three wires instead of two. So it might be best to buy two master sockets from Screwfix or other, and wire the new extensions as direct line from the original master sockets.

For the ADSL, try to make the wiring in two of the pairs, and make the pairs the closest together in the bundle. So, if the red/white and blue/white are the closest together, then use both of these pairs. Wire them as if two individual pairs, but wire them to the same connections in the boxes, if you get my meaning. Don't separate the single wires of the pairs.

The telephone voice line can be left on one pair. So it depends on what you mean to do at the extension site, and if you want to wire as direct line from the master sockets (recommended), or as completely separate extensions with ringer wiring.

Search the web for "UK telephone wiring standard" for a few good hits on the subject.

[Peter Parry]

Indeed it is - but I'd be inclined to use only one pair per line (using terminals 2 and 5) and put master sockets at the end. On the ADSL line the ADSL filter will probably include a ringing capacitor anyway so a normal slave socket will probably be sufficient.

The reason for using only a single pair per line is that the single pair balanced line is quite immune to interference, adding the third ringing line makes it a bit more susceptible to noise/crosstalk.

[Alex Threlfall]

Not quite a solution, but a suggestion might be to get yourself an SOHO pbx, such as the BT Revelation which will take both lines into it, and give you 6 extensions to play with. Then you need only run one extension to the summerhouse, and 5 more to other parts of the house.

The fax detection stuff is kind of handy as well if one of those lines is predominatley used to recieve faxes on as it can redirect it to your fax machine without ringing the other extensions.

[RolYat]

In article , [e-mail] ...

The problem is .... the ADSL line is the line that *must* run to the summerhouse, as this is into what the router will plug.

I will also be using one of the lines for a FAX sending service via the PC.

The 2nd line /could/ be DECT, but this would mean the base unit (there is only the base and one handset) would remain indoors some distance away. Convenience factor equals put it on the desk in front of me i'm afraid, and running it down the same cable seemed a good idea.

It won't be buried ... it will be 'pinned' to the side of a house, and then run along the side bearer of some decking. Very inaccessible, and very unlikely to suffer damage from digging et al.

If it is a suited cable that will be sited away from potential damage issues, then is it the right one?

[RolYat]

In article , [e-mail] ...

Pass. I haven't measured accurately, but less than 50 metres.

The proposed cable is for phone, albeit ADSL as well. No networking at all.

Simple telephone extensions, but to an outside location, hence why I want the right cable, and cable I can hopefully run 2 lines down.

ah .... enter confusion.

Multiple cables .... messy, conduit, costly. maybe?

[RolYat]

In article , spam.guard@_spam_guard.com ...

These are extensions, as in what is currently six foot away from the current master sockets via two cables. I want to run the same down one cable, over a greater distance ...... do I truly have to be *that* fussy?

[Zomaar]

You were doing well until the "red/white" pair...a wee brainfreeze? (orange/white Shirley?)

[Ivor Jones]

Why not put the router in the house and run a few lengths of CAT5..? You can use the spare pairs in a CAT5 cable for a phone, so a couple of runs will give you two computer outlets and two phone outlets.

Ivor

[David Bradley]

[snip]

This has been an interesting thread and has demonstrated that the OP had choosen the right cable for the installation in mind and could possibly go down to a lesser number of wires, say just 2 pairs terminating into master sockets?

A small flaw is that eventually it might be desired to run a network back to the main house/building. If that were the case I seem to remember that there was equipment around that places a 'box' on each end of four core telephone cable to which CAT5 cable can be connected; are such pieces of equipment still arround? But there again I see there is now available a couple of plugs that can be plugged into the electricity supply to do the same thing. Is one method better than the other?

David Bradley

[Andrew Gabriel]

Well there was 100base-VG ethernet, which HP pushed as a technology to pass 100Mbit ethernet over Cat 3 (regular voice grade wiring) using 2 pairs, but it never caught on. Might find some old kit around, but no one makes it anymore.

[Andrew Gabriel]

oops, I mean 4 pairs...

[Jim]

CW1128 is designed for installation in underground ducts, protected from mechanical damage but prone to waterlogging. I don't know how resistant to UV the polyethylene insulation would be in an exposed location, but I guess it should last a few years at least. If you wanted to be safe, you could put it into plastic conduit, which is fairly cheap: you could then get away with using internal cable.

CW1378 is normally used for above-ground "drop-wire" but I don't think it comes above 3 pair.

The line for ADSL would be run straight from the house outlet without filtering. If you want a telephone outside, either use another filter in the summerhouse or run a line from the house's filter over another cable pair, so you have both filtered and unfiltered extensions.

The fax line wouldn't need a master socket or 3rd wire if it's outgoing only, so 2 wires (1 pair) to a secondary would be OK, though it would be wise to allow for a change of use later.

[BigWallop]

LOL!!! You know what I meant. LOL!!! And stop calling me Surely. :-)

[Mark McIntyre]

today. Tomorrow, who knows: :-)

Cat5e is good for this - four twisted pairs in one sheath, and low interference by design.

[RolYat]

In article , [e-mail] ...

when I can have one cable, with 2 lines 'in' it and the router conveniently where I am situated?

Thanks for the suggestion, but I am trying to achieve having as less cable running along the side of the house as is possible, without the need for conduit etc to keep costs down.

Can I run CAT5 outside, along a wall which faces the way the weather generally comes from? Is normal CAT5 weather proof?

[RolYat]

In article , [e-mail] ...

Any further networking - back to the house - will be wireless. I know I could do it the other way, house to garden, but for my own reasons, I want wired to the summerhouse, and then anything requiring access in the house (my laptop) would connect wirelessly from a wireless access point mounted in the summerhouse.

Unless someone knows of a stand alone wireless access point that has a built in hub?

[BigWallop]

Weather proof as long as the outer casing isn't damaged, and the open ends aren't exposed to the elements. Good quality Grey insulated CAT5 is pretty well resistant to UV light as well, so it does stand up to being outside OK.