tapcon screws, basement floor - advice needed

Page 1 of 2  
hi guys,
A contractor just did a floor in my basement. Basically he lay 2x3 on the concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to actually undo anything. My question though is the following:
Can I "fix" the problem by basically screwing in some additional tapcon screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...
any advice would be really appreciated. thanx
greg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Nov 30, 2:23 am, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:

concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to actually undo anything. My question though is the following:

(say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...

3/4" of penetration is really pretty marginal to get good purchase with a Tapcon. I would suggest going 6". Your plan sounds reasonable, though.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
thanks for the reply
one more question: would you know what in what type of stores you can actually buy 6" Tapcon screws? I've checked in stores like Home Depot - there they only have up to 3 1/2 or 4".
(I'm in Canada, but it would still give me some kind of idea...)
g
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Look in your yellow pages under contractors - supplies. These stores are not box stores, but cater to contractors with tools and fasteners. Tapcons are only meant to penetrate good quality, old concrete 1" with an absolute maximum of 1 3/4". You will snap the anchors trying to go further and will often snap them at over an 1". The Phillips drive heads probably cannot be used to the deeper penetrations unless you have an impact grade gun, the hex drives will work better.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
According to the boys that make them, they come in lengths up to 4"
http://www.tapcon.com/products.asp
"greg" <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote in message

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
According to the company that makes them they are readily available through 7 1/2". I use quite a few 5 and 6 inch. http://www.itwbuildex.com/tapcon.htm
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I have 6"er's in my toolbox as we speak.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
Now i wonder why one site would say one thing and the other, another??
s

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
marson wrote:

concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to actually undo anything. My question though is the following:

screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...

6"? Ha, ha, ha...
You better read the tapcon instructions. An inch is fine and much more risks twisting off the tapcon.
Matt
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to actually undo anything. My question though is the following:

screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...

Let's see. He said he'd get 3/4" penetration with a 5" tapcon. If he is right, then 6" would give him 1 3/4" of penetration. From my experience, 3/4" of bite on a 5" tapcon isn't enough. 1 3/4 sucks because some will break, but it is doable. Dan G gave some excellent advice. Been there done that.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
marson wrote:

concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to actually undo anything. My question though is the following:

screws (say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...

The sentence is talking about 3/4" of PENETRATION and you reply that you would suggest 6" which implies 6" of PENETRATION since that was the topic in the sentence to which you replied.
Matt
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Nov 30, 12:23 am, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:

concrete (with a membrane against humidity) and had to use quiet a bit of shimming/shingles as the floor was really not levelled. He had purchased 3 inch tapcon screws and since (after the job was done) I learned that he didn't screw the 2x3 to the cement (since the 3 inch screws wouldnt get there because of the really high, over an inch shimming) so he just tapcon screwed the shingles to the slap and then simply screwed the 2x3 to the shingles. He then installed 2 layers of 5/8" plywood. Problem is the floor still squaks a little in a few place. I really hate that and its only been a day since he installed it. Floor is leveled well, he already put wall partitions so too late to actually undo anything. My question though is the following:

(say 5") that would go through the 2 layers of plywood, then the 2x3 and then an 3/4 of an inch or so into the contrete? (also, the distance from the top 5/8 plywood to the concrete slab is about 4"1/4 so i'm not sure if the 5" would be enough or should I go with the 6" - the slab is only about 2 1/2 inches thick...

Greg-
I would suggest you use Hex Washer Head Tapcons (you might consider 1/4" screw size)
If you counter bore the plywood, you can get whatever concrete penetration you want (within reason) with the 5" Tapcons.
cheers Bob
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
i really appreiciate your replies guys,
hm... i already just purchased the ones with the "flat" head... (my reasoning was that it would be flush with the surface...) why did you suggest the hexagonal head? - is it stronger and less likely to break?
greg
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Dec 3, 6:53 pm, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:

was that it would be flush with the surface...) why did you suggest the hexagonal head? - is it stronger and less likely to break?

Hex heads are easier for your driver to grab and drive, especially in a long tapcon.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
marson wrote:

was that it would be flush with the surface...) why did you suggest the hexagonal head? - is it stronger and less likely to break?

Yes, what he said.
Matt
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
thanks a lot; one last question:
is a 5 inch tapcon more recommended in 1/4 or 3/16 thickness?
I'm asking because I noticed that when the guy was using 3/16 tapcons with the recommended 5/32 mesh (which is 1/32 less thick than the tapcon itself) he had no problem. however when he tried screwing in the 1/4 inch thick tapcons while predrilling holes using the recommended 3/16 mesh (which is not 1/32 but 1/16 less thick than the tapcon itself) he was having some problems getting them in..
any opinions on that?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
greg wrote:

You mean diameter? Or something else?

Mesh? I thought you were fastening 2x3s to concrete?
Matt
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
by mesh i meant "drill bit" (that will be used to predrill the hole for the tapcon)
and yes, by 1/4 and 3/16 i was referring to diameter of the tapcon screws
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
greg wrote:

Interesting. I've never heard a drill bit called "mesh" before? Are you from a different country? I'm just curious.
As to your original question, I've always used the drill size that Tapcon recommends and have never had a problem driving the fasteners with a 3/8" drill.
Matt
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Dec 5, 4:21 pm, greg <gstusio[at]hotmail[dot]com> wrote:

the recommended 5/32 mesh (which is 1/32 less thick than the tapcon itself) he had no problem. however when he tried screwing in the 1/4 inch thick tapcons while predrilling holes using the recommended 3/16 mesh (which is not 1/32 but 1/16 less thick than the tapcon itself) he was having some problems getting them in..

1/4" would be preferred in the longer lengths as they are less prone to breaking.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Related Threads

    HomeOwnersHub.com is a website for homeowners and building and maintenance pros. It is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.