The above example is intended to show that it is possible to design
unconventionally framed structures to save labor, but they must be
Agreed and without dispute. In this particular case, the owner wanted to
explore different ideas/designs with respect to labor costs.
Relative to Bobk207's answer of;
Pretty hard to beat stick framing & wood sheathing for speed of
construction & minimal labor. Gun nails are faster than screws.
While the above is true, the owner has no desire to include
interior/exterior wood sheating. In addition, it's faster, and less
expensive, (material/labor) to build the walls on a slab and fasten diagonal
shear metal banding (interior/exterior?) with screws then to cut/install
diagonal 2x6 shear bracing into the walls.
There's no doubt in my mind a Licensed Engineer needs to look at this and
approve of it, for comfort of mind if nothing else. Irrespective of that, I
still have a need to know whether this would a viable alternative. In my
mind, I don't see the 1x4 proposal being as solid as stick framed with
exterior wood sheathing. To that degree, I wonder how much structural
integrity will be lost by using the 1x4's on the face of the studs, with
structural metal ribbed panels on those, as opposed to using OSB on the
studs. I can 'see' the metal panels being worth next to nothing (shear) as
they would depend on the 1x4 connections to the wall studs.
I have no idea where this will wind up, but if it gets wierd, out of scope
and approved, I'll definitly post some dwg's someplace for all to see.
Thnx to all for posts.......................
Keep the cowboys away from the nail guns & just tighten up on the
nailing schedule slightly, don't worry about the few misses, nobody
fixes them......btw don't all shearwalls get nailed at about 4"
independent of what the dwg says; 3, 4 or 6? :)
Yeah, a row of misses is bad, even if is it only field nailing...turns
out that for cyclic loading, one of the possible failure modes is "out
of plane" sheet buckling.
This is esp a problem with thin sheathing, even a few missed field
nails (since they're only 12" oc) w/ 3/8 ply will allow the sheet to
buckle. This buckling action actually pulls the boundary nails
(that's why those wimpy .113 nails aren't so good) & compromises the
overall strength. This doesn't seem happen with 1/2 (15/32) plywood.
The field nails closest to the sheet corners are the most important.
That's why, I really don't like 3/8 but the code drives shea rwalls to
3/8 since it gives your best plf per $. Additionally field nailing
should be more like 8 o/c not 12"
Slight over nailing allows for occasional miss
btw never used a screw gun w/ auto feed.....don't the cowboys miss
with those as well?
You said the owner wanted to "would over build", wanted to exceed any
& all codes.
expensive, (material/labor) to build the walls on a slab and fasten
shear metal banding (interior/exterior?) with screws then to cut/
diagonal 2x6 shear bracing into the walls. <<<<<<<<
I've got news for you & him...... a metal brace will be much less
stiff & probably much less strong than a 1x6 let in brace and WAY less
strong / stiff than OSB or plywood sheathing.
btw a let-in brace is actually pretty quick to install
besides I thought you said you didn't have much timber experience but
you're telling what's "faster"?
walls on a slab and fasten diagonal shear metal banding (interior/exterior?)
with screws then to cut/installdiagonal 2x6 shear bracing into the walls.<<<<<
Those Simpson diagonal straps suck, they're easy to install but hard
to get tight.
Plywood / OSB are the way to go.
If this design / build project continues in the direction its
Simpson style straps are way down the list when it comes to
performance. Sheathing as thin as 3/8 will be SO much stronger. If
you want that place to "meet or exceed any codes", it's gonna need a
structural skin; its just physics
Seems like the owner has his own ideas about what's faster /
stronger / cheaper and doesn't want to be confused with the facts.
Now that's a STRONG POSSIBILITY!
Irrespective of all the suggetsions & controversy, I do know this guy will
eventually do everything right. I also know he'll wind up overbuilding. He's
engaged in the Nuclear industry where safety factors (4:1 minimum) run way
past what the world lives by...............
Yeah, he'll wind up overbuilding from HIS point of view......... I
really don't care if he's from the nuke industry....this ain't the
nuke industry, he has his own set of experience but it doesn't have
much to do with timber framing.
based on what? divine intervention? He is probably the most dangerous
kind of owner builder.....he thinks he knows better but he doesn't.
My first first career was aerospace / defense, weapons systems, FEM,
computer programing, analysis & design.
My second career was in civil / structural research..... It took me
YEARS to learn the ins & outs of a new field even though it was still
Do I know how shearwalls behave under cyclic testing...yes
Do I know the fastest / best way to build a house.....no, that's why I
defer to the experience of those who do.
Your friend may know all sorts of nuke stuff but building this garage
is something different and his desire to deviate from "normal
practice" could be a recipe for disaster.
When I have a "non-standard" concept that I think MIGHT be a good
idea, I have at least a half dozen practicing CE/SE's / Phd's I can
bounce the idea off. They can tell me whether or not its a good idea
BEFORE I get into trouble.
Timber framing has evolved over the years & it's pretty good now.
Could it be better? Definitely but deviating from standard practice
based on a gut feeling from a totally different field doesn't sound
like a great idea.
How can he have safety factors of 4 when he doesn't even know the
loads? One of your earlier posts, no wind....a design wind speed of
Tell him to stop over thinking the garage.......just put OSB or
plywood sheathing on it & forget about anything exotic.
Exactly, or if you want to do something exotic, get qualified people to do
it for you.
It seems like 75% of the posts here are, "I want to do something everyone
tells me I shouldn't, but is cheaper and probably illegal. Can one of you
internet experts tell me it's OK, so I can go ahead and do what I'm going to
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