Snowload- new construction roof not to code.

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RicodJour wrote:

You have seen the architect's or engineer's calculations? I haven't seen them so I don't know what load combinations and values they used.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

You're dancing around the obvious, Matt. You're doing the OP a disservice by letting your ego and need to be right get in the way. That is not something a responsible engineer should do.
R
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RicodJour wrote:

No, I'm simply failing to join you in your hyperbole about everything in the structure being insufficient simply because the roof trusses are insufficient. Other things may be, but there isn't a reason yet to suspect that every header, wall or foundation element is inadequate. As I said, most residential structures are built to fairly standard foundation sizes that are typically overbuilt by as substantial factor.
The architect or engineer who did this design should know what they need to review now that the roof error has been uncovered. I simply don't see a need to alarm the homeowner any more than is necessary and I don't agree that suspecting everything you listed initially is necessary to worry about.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

This is what I wrote when I broached the subject:
"There is also a critical question you haven't asked. Loads are calculated from the top down. If the roof loads are increased, what does that do to the rest of the structure? Beams and headers might have to be reinforced, and reinforcements all the way down to the foundation might have to be done. "
I pointed out something I felt had probably not been addressed. I was not being an alarmist. Please choose another post to harp on.
R
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In a previous post RicodJour wrote...

Matt:
I'm afraid I'm going to have to side with Rico on this one. Most engineers I know are not in the habit of oversizing structural members to meet some sort of standard building methods. Especially for one-of-a-kind structures like the porte-cochere.
Having said that, I'm sure that SOME of the window and door headers MAY be oversized. One could not tell without doing a COMPLETE REVIEW of the structural calculations.
One thing that has gone unmentioned in all of this is sliding and drifting snow. The upper roof can easily dump snow onto the lower roof, which will cause heavier than normal snow loads over a portion of the roof. The angled walls of the upper story will have a tendency to accumulate drifted snow and again impose heavier than normal snow loads on the lower roof.
The incorrect structural design is the responsibility of the original architect and engineer. They should be given the chance to correct the design. Also, in my opinion they should be on the hook for at least some of the extra cost to fix the problem.
--
Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Bob Morrison wrote:

Even I know that this would be a serious problem. Would retrofitting the roof be enough to address the added weight of dumping and accumulated drifting snows? You said...."Also the original architect and engineer should be given a chance to correct the design." Both know what has happened and actually met with the GC at the Planning Department meeting. However, since that meeting, neither have contacted the GC to help work on a solution. That makes me less trusting of them than I was last week.
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In a previous post Kats via HomeKB.com wrote...

In a work NO! The entire structure must be re-evaluated for the heavier loads. Also, the seismic forces will change. Current code pretty much requires that at least some of the snow weight be included when computing the seismic forces.

Are they talking to you? What happens if you call the architect? Does he/she return your alls? They should both know that this kind of mistake can cost them their professional reputations if not their professional licenses if they don't respond in the proper way and get the problem resolved quickly.
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Bob Morrison, PE, SE
R L Morrison Engineering Co
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Like I mentioned before, we are within 400 feet of the San Andreas earthquake fault. So possible some of this snow weight load is really computed into the structure because of that?
The LA has not contacted us. And, neither DH nor I have tried to contact the LA. Everytime I mention doing that DH says he's watching to see what happens this week. I also mentioned talking to our lawyer just to bring him up to speed and I get the same response. You must understand this is very unusual response for my husband. We own a business with about 40 employees. He's not afraid to make decisions and he doesn't back away from them. Usually in a situation like this he would be eating nails by now.
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RicodJour wrote:

I'm content to wait to see what the outcome from the architect, engineer and building code enforcement officer is.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

Of course our ruminations here won't change what's been done to date, but it may influence what will happen from this point on. If we can save the OP some grief...well, that's why we answer these questions, right?
Matt, there's no doubt that if it were your house or if you were the designer you would be all over the situation. You wouldn't wait in hope of a phone call and you wouldn't hesitate to pick up the phone.
Personally, I think the OP is owed some explanations and assurances. Helping her determine what needs to be explained to her can only help - even if the assurances do come back, "No problem, it's all fixed at no cost to you."
R
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RicodJour wrote:

My point is that we aren't seeing the situation ourselves. We are getting second-hand information over the net of all things. I simply don't think we can answer many detailed questions that way. She needs to force the professionals to be professionals or find some who are. We can't do that for her remotely.
Matt
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Matt Whiting wrote:

Agreed.
R
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Matt, Rico, Bob
I also agree. And want to thank you for helping me as far as you could. You have given me some insight and I now understand a few things better. At least enough to ask certain questions and maybe know if I'm getting shined with the answers. It's time for me to go to work. Thanks.
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First thought that hits me is to put a sectionalized ridge between the trusses. Then, put in real rafters and corresponding support as needed for the rafters midsections. Like purlins and collar ties etc. Tie in the rafter to an adjacent truss. Maybe overkill, but ain't no snow comin in. The tearout cost of the current trusses for installing those that cut the mustard may exceed my suggestions. But at least you'll have some semi-green firewood for awhile...
--
Jonny
"Kats" <u28664@uwe> wrote in message news:68cb78003710d@uwe...
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a
of
we
on
found
3300
Anyway,
Architect and Engineering at fault If it's not to code.
Have them discuss a solution with the Permit Department. I would be surprised if they can't agree on how to strengthen the roof from the inside without taking it all off.
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CwWaters, Strengthen the roof from the inside without taking it all off is what DH and I are hoping for. To take it all off would almost be starting from scratch.
Johnny, Thanks for the additional suggestion, but since we just bought a cord of wood, we are really trying to avoid adding semi-green firewood this season!!!! Matt, GC is only suggesting the plan to County. If County bites, then engineering will figure out if it is feasible.
I did find out that the code is for 50psf . And it applies to the entire elevations from 3300 to 5400. As far as design loads, I still have not found out yet what is required.
I thought I would also send you a picture of the home we live in now at 3600 elevation. It is somewhat close in mileage to our construction which is at 4300 elevation. This amount of snow was unusual for where we live now, but I wanted to show you it does happen.
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j187/hyrkat/snowpic.jpg
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Kats via HomeKB.com wrote:

Part of the engineering process is to account for situations like this that, although rare, can happen. What is the snow load requirement below 3300 feet elevation? I'm curious how much you might gain by the linear interpolation approach. Do you know what load your current trusses were designed for?
Matt
Matt
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