Size of Telephone wire

I plan to run a length of water line(2") for gravity feed and power line (2") for 1/0 wire. I have determined the power line is 1/0 for the 300 ' or less, with an electrical contractor, for a small 100 amp service to a cabin.
I want to run a phone line that distance and was wondering the size of the line for the regular telephone service if I want to have one down at the cabin. Do I run the regular telephone wire? Or do I upgrade to a larger wire for distance?
Thank You, jloomis
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On Mon, 7 May 2012 13:01:47 -0700, jloomis wrote:

check with the local telco for actual size. But my guess is that standard phone line should do.
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Easy to fine out. Dah!
OK, I found that I can use CAT 3 or CAT 5 CMX. They are outdoor cable and typically for a gate opener one uses this also. For instance at 800 ft. it works fine. At 300 ft. ok too since it is shorter..... So, a little research online and voila! Any suggestions gladly appreciated. jloomis
"jloomis" wrote in message
I plan to run a length of water line(2") for gravity feed and power line (2") for 1/0 wire. I have determined the power line is 1/0 for the 300 ' or less, with an electrical contractor, for a small 100 amp service to a cabin.
I want to run a phone line that distance and was wondering the size of the line for the regular telephone service if I want to have one down at the cabin. Do I run the regular telephone wire? Or do I upgrade to a larger wire for distance?
Thank You, jloomis
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On Mon, 7 May 2012 17:11:02 -0700, jloomis wrote:

I was just thinking, why bother with the wire? Two yagi antennas should do the trick.
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for the telephone? what would I have to do to make the phone work with Yagi antenna. I imagine a power source, a transmitter, a phone recording device...... Lots of stuff to hook up a plain Jane telephone? I think a Yagi Antenna is for Ham radio if I am not mistaken. humm? "richard" wrote in message

I was just thinking, why bother with the wire? Two yagi antennas should do the trick.
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On Mon, 7 May 2012 18:54:58 -0700, jloomis wrote:

yeah it might be more trouble but it was just an idea. FYI yagi is a style of antenna which is so common, well, every rooftoop in the country used to have them. Some still do. but I'm gonna look around and see what I can come up with just for fun.
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Too much trouble......yep. Hey, why not get 2 cans and a string for the hell of it! just kidding.....no antenna this time though. john
"richard" wrote in message
On Mon, 7 May 2012 18:54:58 -0700, jloomis wrote:

yeah it might be more trouble but it was just an idea. FYI yagi is a style of antenna which is so common, well, every rooftoop in the country used to have them. Some still do. but I'm gonna look around and see what I can come up with just for fun.
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On Mon, 7 May 2012 18:54:58 -0700, jloomis wrote:

One way might be with a wireless router. You can plug standard phone lines into most of them. Bare routers can transmit 300 feet with no obstructions. But a small yagi antenna will boost the signal for sure.
radiolabs has a nice affordable selection.
http://www.radiolabs.com/products/wireless/directional-wireless-antenna.php
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On 5/7/2012 3:01 PM, jloomis wrote:

standard cat 5 cable will do the trick.
oh, and btw, you don't need 1/0 to carry 100 amps that far. 2ga would be fine.
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Steve Barker
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Hello, I was wondering about this. Does 300 ft. calc. out to a 100 amp possibility with 2 gauge? Say if it were even 350' I have to measure after trenching and such to actual 100 amp panel in garage. It may be real close to 300' and possible a few more.....not sure yet? What distance would 2 gauge get me for curiosity sake. I would love to be able to take advantage of all the power I can get if it is needed for "art studio" cabin, etc.(1/0 costs is going to be hard to swallow too) I already upgraded from my house to my 100 amp service in the garage with a new copper wire. Now I need to go from that panel to the cabin. Your advice and calculation is appreciated. Jloomis
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On 5/7/2012 3:01 PM, jloomis wrote:

standard cat 5 cable will do the trick.
oh, and btw, you don't need 1/0 to carry 100 amps that far. 2ga would be fine.
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Steve Barker
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I don't remember where I read it, but I think regular phone cable is good for 2000-4000 feet depending on whether you use the 22 gauge or 24 gauge cable. You can use Cat5e network cable to go a little further, and I would probably use it for shorter runs also as the twisted cables help reduce crosstalk interference.
In any case, you will probably have to find cable rated for direct burial. Even if you run conduit between buildings, it can still fill up with water.
When I needed direct burial cable to wire up our house, my phone company gave me a few hundred feet at no cost. I don't know if that's standard practice or not, but it saved me a lot of time and expense.
I would run Cat5e cable as you may want to run a network connection some day. I would probably run two cables while you have things open. Better yet, install conduit between buildings and you can pull whatever you need later.
On the other hand, I've been running VOIP phone service for quite a few years. With cordless phones I don't even use that phone cable I buried years ago. :)
Anthony
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responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/construction/size-of-telephone-wire-21515-.htm DA wrote:
jloomis wrote:

Is the phone cable going to be buried alongside the 2" used for the power cable? You can't use the same conduit and at 2" it's too small to allow for two rated innerducts to keep power and low voltage separated. Even if you added a separate conduit for it, it will still have to be a direct-burial rated outdoor telephone cable, these days usually marketed as "Category 3". Category 5 cable recommended here would make no sense since the distance is too great for networking applications and it will just add cost with no performance benefit. 24AWG is fine for 2000' and beyond, you won't need any heavier gauge than that.
Before you pull the cable, call the telco and see if you can make them come down from the pole with their own cable and terminate directly at the cabin. Offer a convenient conduit and perhaps a long enough contract. In other words, it's in your best interest to not own that last 300' pull of telephone cable whenever possible. If the demarcation point moves from the cabin to the property line, you're facing the need to install primary protectors on both ends of the cable (and provide some kind of housing for them on the property line side) and it will just add cost and complexity and lead to troubleshooting nightmares in the future.
Cheers!
------------------------------------- /_/ ((@v@)) NIGHT ():::() OWL VV-VV
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On 5/8/2012 3:48 PM, DA wrote:

since when is 300' too far for networking? 328 is the standard limit and that's just a number. It will work much farther than that. Plus, cat 5 cable is a lot better than cat 3. I'd put at least 3 runs of it in there since it costs next to nothing, then he can have all the pairs he'll ever need.

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Thank You, Cat 5..... I see Cat....3... Well I did put in a separate conduit for the line from my garage. We also buried it 12" higher that the electrical conduit. That electrical line is down 36"+- and the water and power are up from that 12" So, with 2 qualified advises.....now I have to decide? Is this flip a coin time? Sounds like Cat 5 is your choice....... hummmm like the supermarket.....too many cereal boxes... john
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On 5/8/2012 3:48 PM, DA wrote:

since when is 300' too far for networking? 328 is the standard limit and that's just a number. It will work much farther than that. Plus, cat 5 cable is a lot better than cat 3. I'd put at least 3 runs of it in there since it costs next to nothing, then he can have all the pairs he'll ever need.

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responding to http://www.homeownershub.com/construction/size-of-telephone-wire-21515-.htm DA wrote: jloomis wrote:

So, it's all internal - a garage to a cabin on the same property? No reason to worry about telco then, it's all yours - costs and responsibilities, the whole thing. On the upside though, no reason to worry about standard compliance either since you own both ends. And since you're not going to meet the pairs of the telco's cable, CAT5 (or better) does become an option.

On the basis of cost? An outdoor CAT5 cable is more expensive than outdoor CAT3 (more so than indoor versions) and if you have no plans to use anything other than a phone in there, why waste money on CAT5? On the other hand, you see yourself using a network device (say, a networked camera) then you'd just have to accepts the extra costs and pull the right type of cable for the application - CAT5 (CAT5e).
Your lengths are right on the edge. Then, again, since you own both ends, you may just accept standard non-compliance as well. Your CAT5 cable pull is not supposed to be longer than 90m (275ft) and some 10m (32ft) are left for the combined max length of the patch cables on both ends. But the devices will probably work all the way up to 150m of combine cable+patch cord length by reducing speed. Standard compliance gives you guaranteed performance. If you're willing to accept slower transmission or tinkering with hardware before it starts working - nobody is going to enforce it, standards are not codes, they're just guidelines.
------------------------------------- /_/ ((@v@)) NIGHT ():::() OWL VV-VV
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John, Gel filled cat 6 is about 22 cents a foot and is suitable for direct burial. A bit messy to work with, but it will last and handle your com. needs. The recommendations are 100 meters or about 1000 feet max, for computer use but you can stretch it a bit with a slight loss of performance, for phone use, the phone co. uses miles of it
NIGHT

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I'll second the gel-filled CAT6 - its what I used to run to my shop building 140' from the house. direct burial 24" down, adjacent to a 1" black poly water line that I have yet to hook up.... I bought the cable very reasonably from a guy on Ebay - end of a large roll, cheaper than retail.
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wrote:

I would run a 1/2" conduit for your comm cables. Run CAT5 for now and then you have the option of upgrading in the future to coax or fiber optic. Who knows what future plans might be. 1/2" PVC is cheap and allows for future changes.
Run power down one side of trench, conduit for Comm down the other, with water pipe in middle. That way you should have no troulbe with interference.
As for wire for 100 amp, we are talking copper are we not. Just need to clear that up before you take someones advice for smaller wire.
My chart shows 1/0 copper, and that just barely.
Remove 333 to reply. Randy
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Yes Copper and 1/0 just sneaks in. thank you
"Randy333" wrote in message
wrote:

I would run a 1/2" conduit for your comm cables. Run CAT5 for now and then you have the option of upgrading in the future to coax or fiber optic. Who knows what future plans might be. 1/2" PVC is cheap and allows for future changes.
Run power down one side of trench, conduit for Comm down the other, with water pipe in middle. That way you should have no troulbe with interference.
As for wire for 100 amp, we are talking copper are we not. Just need to clear that up before you take someones advice for smaller wire.
My chart shows 1/0 copper, and that just barely.
Remove 333 to reply. Randy
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