Milwaukee = Ryobi?

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wrote:

<commercial grade> desktops were still assembled in US (Using a lot of pacific rim components, of course.) Monitors are OEM'd by other vendors, presumably overseas, as are keyboards and mice and such. No idea where their consumer-grade machines like in the Sunday paper are knocked together.
aem sends...
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wrote:

Dimension 9200C fits...where?
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aemeijers wrote:

Wifes office just got a bunch of new Optiplex machines which are their "business grade" units and they all have "Made in China" stickers.
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wrote:

so I haven't seen any brand new Optiplexes in a couple of years.
aem sends...
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Tim Smith wrote:

Sorry *most* Dell computers for the US market are made offshore. As I explained earlier the "Nashville factory" is simply the point where cargo enters the US parcel delivery system. I don't know about Winston Salem but that may be another freight carriers hub.
And as someone else suggested you can also cross check this by looking at the label. Every one I have seen says "Made in China".
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No, the Nashville factory is a factory:
<http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/archive/04100 0_dell.html>
Quote from that article:
A year ago, Stacey Shannon was making her living stapling bar-code tags on rugs at a Nashville carpet maker.
Today the 27-year-old works 25 miles down Interstate 40 in Lebanon, Tenn., and a world away, building desktop computers for Dell Computer Corp.
``I didn't think I'd actually know how to build a computer,'' Shannon said. ``Now I know how to build one like the back of my hand. It's easier than I thought."
More information on the various facilities Dell has in that area, and what they do:
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/pressoffice/en/2006 / 2006_06_02_nv_000?c=us&l=en&s=corp>

Nope. It's a manufacturing facility:
<http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/corp/pressoffice/en/2004 / 2004_12_22_rr_000?c=us&l=en&s=gen>
<http://www.industryweek.com/ReadArticle.aspx?ArticleID 007>
A quote from that:
Dell's Winston-Salem plant will produce PowerEdge servers, PowerVault and Dell/EMC products, and OptiPlex and Dimension desktop computers primarily for the U.S. market. Winston-Salem's distribution advantages played into the company's site choice.
Here's an article on how Dell does things:
<http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/19/business/yourmoney/19dell.html?ex 79 115200&en5bb32b32772e89a&eiP70>
--
--Tim Smith

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Tim Smith wrote:

But those are just the usual warm and fuzzy press releases from the past about the great stuff that is *going* to happen after they got the development grants/no taxes for 10 years exemptions. Did any of it actually happen?
My nephew (and associates) fly in lots of Dell computers from China every day. Every new Dell computer I have seen recently is marked "Made in China"
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Exactly...the typical PR/Marketing "weasel words".
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wrote:

I don't know exactly how Dell is operating those facilities now as opposed to when they were opened--I suppose (although I doubt) they could be building individualized towers, etc., overseas and shipping them in, but it just doesn't sound logical. I was in TN when the Lebanon, TN (east of Nashville) opened and it certainly was an assembly/manufacturing facility then. That was roughly '99 time frame iirc. I just looked at the Economic Development Organization for the area and they still show 1500 employees at the Dell Lebanon, TN, facility, but could find nothing up-to-date on what they're actually doing. Would seem unlikely they would need 1500 people to unload and re-ship, however.
Dell web site is uninformative -- would have to read annual reports and do more research than I'm interested in doing to find out more detail. I can believe the laptop and some specialty business, but really have a hard time conceiving it could be cost-effective to fly in large quantities of the bulk type machines already assembled/ software loaded/etc....
But, I've been wrong before... :)
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Yes. They have a 500000 sq ft facility in Winston-Salem, of which they are using about 40% of the space, for 700 people to assembly computers. That was as of about two months ago:
<http://www.journalnow.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=WSJ%2FMGArticle%2FW SJ_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid37834549592>

Most likely your nephew is flying in parts for Dell. Much of Dell's parts come from Asia (disk drives, for example).
--
--Tim Smith

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Or maybe both. They may assemble a generic computer in China then customize it here. Lots of speculation, very little facts about this. Or they may assemble the high end here. Until we get a real Dell employee to say otherwise, we're all just guessing.
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The one thing that is certain is that Dell continues to refine/modify its processes in response to very dynamic market forces, both on the consumption and production side. What they had in mind when the facilities were built 5 or more years ago is quite likely a light-year away from what their current procurement/production/distribution models are. And, what they may be 5 years down the road may bear little resemblence to today's...
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That's nothing new, the same product with different names, Had an employee who worked in a battery factory before the war (WWII) whose line put 5 different labels on the same battery coming down the line. So we are looking at vintage '35 to '40.
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Chris Lewis wrote:

Well, I just looked at the Milwaukee 18V hammer-drill I bought quite some time ago -- well before the TTI buyout. Care to guess where it says it was manufactured? (Hint--surprised me no end). :)
I have another bought just last year, but for the moment it's unaccessible so can't go look until the truck it's in gets back for a comparison examination...
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Chris Lewis wrote:

...
Well, it's clear that what they're assembling and/or manufacturing in the US can't be cheaper to ship halfway 'round the world than locally. Now whether they can make the same product(s) cheaper enough somewhere else in the world and still ship them in is, of course, another analysis entirely. _ALL_ I'm saying is there are still Milwaukee manufacturing facilities in the US in contrast to OP's apparent contention/belief that the TTI takeover meant cheap stuff of the same production line w/ Ryobi.
That production is worldwide now and has been for some time is not in contention, at least by me. I know full well that York/Delta/several other in the woodworking tools are the _same_ tool simply branded w/ _perhaps_ some slightly differing features/amenities and if your're really lucky, a little better qc on a Delta as opposed to York. Doesn't have any real bearing on the original post (at least as I read it) and the response I've made...
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The point I was trying to make (perhaps not all that well) is that even if the same company makes Milwaulkee and Ryobi, it doesn't mean that the quality is the same. Regardless of plant location or even production line.
Eg: MTD owns about 5 different lawn/garden tractor brands. Cub Cadet is most definately not equivalent to "MTD branded" tractors.
Eg: Dewalt != B&D != Porter Cable != Delta. Yet, they're all B&D...
Nor should the location of the plants make any difference - the big three north american automakers dismissed japanese automakers for rather too long, and are still paying for it.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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On May 15, 11:10 am, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

To me that goes w/o saying although I know that it isn't so for many. In essence then, we're agreeing but I surely didn't get that message from your previous posts--I certainly thought you were trying to make a case that Milwaukee wasn't producing anything in the US. So, if I misinterpreted, sorry, apparently I was also tilting at the wrong windmill... :)
BTW, the answer to the question of where the 18V hammer drills were _actually_ made is (surprising me) the Czech Republic. True for the old one and the very recently acquired one both...
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I was trying to make the case that it's not clear how much they're manufacturing in the US, but it doesn't matter...

It happens to all of us ;-)

My father worked for a couple of years as a sales engineer for a heavy industry manufacturing group based in Czechoslovakia, _before_ the Soviet empire came apart, let alone before the Czech and Slovak republics parted ways. Rock crushers, pumps in the 100+ HP class etc (for mining industry etc). "Won't win beauty or engineering elegance prizes, but _tough_ and lasts forever".
Add a bit of engineering elegance and shift to retail, and you have Milwaulkee ;-)
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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On May 15, 1:12 pm, snipped-for-privacy@nortelnetworks.com (Chris Lewis) wrote:

Yes...in a former life I worked with a line of ash and elemental analyzers for online monitoring of coal. A fair amount of the heavy gear in the prep plants was of East European origin...

What surprised me was that one has become conditioned to offshore cheap manufacturing to mean SE Asia or, maybe, Mexico for those who jumped on the NAFTA bandwagon. That eastern bloc countries are for the most part also still in the cheap labor camp has pretty much fallen of the radar screen...
I thought it interesting that the decision had been made and the location selected obviously long before the takeover. My _really_ old red gear is, of course, labelled USA, but that's going back 50 years to most of it. I hadn't had any need for buying something I didn't already have for quite a long time and came to the high power battery drill _very_ late in the game so didn't have anything of intermediate age to try to compare with...
BTW, "Milwaukee" has only one (1) "L"... :)
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The underlying issue on the "radar screen" front is the US bleedout on trade. The US had a $725.8 billion trade deficit in 2005 (>$200B with China alone, ~$70B with Canada). That's US dollars going over "there" (and some "here", to reference the other followup to my posting ;-)
[Canada had a $55B total trade surplus in 2005. Last time the US had a trade surplus was in 1975.]
I wouldn't include the Czech Republic in the cheap labor camp. It's advantage comes from a long history of industrialization, good education, and relative stability (compared to many other eastern bloc countries). The standard of living there has been pretty comfortable for several decades, and wages are moderately high compared to other places in the eastern bloc.
The parts of Czechoslovakia that _didn't_ have as much of that went off on its own (relatively peacefully!).
With the Czech Republic, it's a shift of manufacturing with good education, infrastructure etc backing it up. Not _new_ manufacturing and all of the long-term education/infrastructure buildup that needs.
Yugoslavia had the same potential advantages, but the "going off on their own" bit was hardly peaceful and set them back decades. Tho there are sectors still doing well.
--
Chris Lewis,

Age and Treachery will Triumph over Youth and Skill
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