I have a large Horizontal std house eaves run, maybe 35'-40', and when rain really comes down, particularly when the eaves has not been cleaned out recently, I get an overflowing waterfall around the middle of that run. The overflowing waterfall is right where there is a basement window, and it flows into the house and all over the floor, so I have a problem. Even when I clean it out every few months it will happen.
Is the type with the Aluminum nails placed through the eaves. I do not know how these nails are installed, if they are pre-drilled and therefore precisely located, or if they can be re-hammered in, etc. I am specifically interested in the mechanical connection of the nails to the house.
I don't know if there is a flat wood board the nails are in, what type of wood or how thick, or if several boards, or if I can re-use the same nail holes, with or without larger diameter nails, or shims, or if I can position other or additional nail hole locations. My problem is re-inforcing and improving, because I can't leave it, considering the position of the window.
SO, How do I diagnose and fix the problem wrt the nails. My guess is I would start by running a string line because its a large run, and thus easily overflows. Where do I start to determine if/how to do this?
the original eaves was retrofitted with new aluminum eaves and has new soffits and an entire wrapping of aluminum trim, so I can't see what kind of mounting there would be
yes, I just got a strange e-mail, something about gutters and downspouts. I thought an eavestrough was a gutter.
"A rain gutter (also known as eavestrough, guttering or just gutter) is a narrow channel, or trough, forming the component of a roof system which collects and diverts rainwater shed by the roof. In many buildings..."
from
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I was hoping for a layman's definition so I could clarify
....on these retrofitted gutters that are overflowing. Since all I can see behind them is retrofitted Aluminum trim and soffits. Those nails are magically delicious.
It is the method of connection of the long Aluminum nails that are through the eaves and through the flat Aluminum trim (all I can see behind the the gutters(eavestroughs)) and what the nails are likely to be fastened into that is of interest. I need to strenghten or add more nails in the middle of the run.
I am not sure if there are holes that come in the eavestrough when you buy it (probably at std. spacing), and/or if I can add holes in the eaves themselves to put the nails through, and what is behind the newer Aluminum trim to which I would attach new nails, or would strengthen. If its a hit and miss, do I pre-drill, do I need to find the ends of joists, do I need a stud finder, etc, etc.
This is very common. You can buy special gutter leaf guard (screening) at your local - Menards/Lowe's/Home Depot - that comes in sections and is easy to install (just snaps into place.) This will prevent most of the leaves from entering the gutter (they will just be washed down the roof and over to the ground instead of falling into the gutter, however the rain will fall into the gutter.) Also, trim back any tree branches that overhang your roof. Not a 100% fix (nothing is) but should solve your overflow problem.
I don't mind regularly cleaning them out 2-3 times per year; it only takes
20 minutes, the downspout guards that look like wire mesh light bulbs get clogged with leaves and keys every 2-3 months, but there is also always a significant quantity of ashphalt nibs shedding that are constantly fillling up the bottom of the trough anyway, and I use a hose to blast that down the long runs . I'd be lying if I said I thought any of the nails were loose enough to strenghten, causing the sagging in spots. I think it does sag there, but its probably more to do with the quantity and specific placement of the nails. But It even overflows when basically clean, due to volume.
The real fix has got a lot to do with the string line idea, and how to get it solid in a straight line, and I haven't a clue how to do that.
Well I still recommend using screening (in place of the downspout guards). Once the leaves are in the gutters, they will always end up at the guards - clogging them. Keeping the leaves out works better.
I go around and re-nail my gutter nails tight to the aluminum gutter every five or ten years. they do loosen and allow some sag to creep in.
You can always add additional nails, all you do is pick a place in the gutter where you feel additional support is needed, hold a sleeve inside the gutter and nail through the outside face of the gutter into the sleeve into the fascia. (A sleeve is just an aluminum tube.) Ideally, you want to maintain a 1/4" per foot fall towards the downspout.
There are also special (inexpensive) hanger made to fasten to the front edge of the gutter and are nailed under the first row of shingles or fastened into the facia. These would provide excellent support for your gutters. Example:
Well considering all the options I still need to know what is gonna be under there as far as a mounting (wood) surface goes. I don't know how they are installed in the first place, whether pre-drilled. If the ends of joists are counted on, or small blocking, or a guaranteed solid piece of wwood at any point along the length of the run, or a combination, & in what order. All I can say is that whatever it is is entirely shrouded in Al sheet metal. The soffit is only an inch or two below the flat bottom of the gutters, meaning whatever wood is in there is a max of about 5", top to bottom. But where and what is the mounting wood?
_ U|_
shingle gutter/Aluminum trim U|
1"-2" soffit _ (guessing 7" wide) vertical bricks of house
It's all just covered in nothing but white Aluminum sheet metal, its not a board, or the ends of joists say as it might be on an old garage, so I don't know how to attach anything to it anywhere.
Aluminum gutters do not, in my experience, come with prepunched holes. The gutter is held in position and the gutter spikes are driven through the gutter and sleeve (spacer) into the fascia. If the fascia is 3/4" material, the spike is located such that in penetrates the rafter tail. If the fascia is 2" lumber, the spike can be placed anywhere. I'm assuming that your soffit is constructed of 3/4" pine or redwood and that it has been wrapped with aluminum as part of a re-siding job or a facelift project. The aluminum now obscures the visual clues (nail heads, fascia joints) as to where the rafter tails are. So, you need to find the tails so that new, additional spikes can be driven or you need an attachment that does not rely on the rafter. To find the tails, you might have success with an old-fashioned type stud finder that uses a magnet to find the nails that hold the fascia to the rafter tail. You will need to remove the gutter to do this. I have never tried a magnetic finder through aluminum, so I can't say whether it will work. =20 Another method of locating the tails is with a drill bit. Remove the gutter, chuck a 1/16" bit into your drill, and drill a hole through the aluminum and fascia directly below an existing spike, about 2" above the bottom edge of the soffit, and where the reinstalled gutter will hide the holes. The idea is to get the feel of what drilling into a rafter tail is like. Now drill a hole to the left or right of an existing spike at a multiple of 16". It is likely that you will find a tail, as 16" is the common rafter spacing. Look in your attic to confirm this spacing. If the rafters are at 24" centers, adjust the test hole spacing accordingly. If your test hole is a miss, move
1" to the left and right and drill additional holes. Sooner or later, you will find a rafter tail. A light touch and sensitive hand is required to do this successfully. You can plug the holes in the aluminum with a shot of latex caulk; if done with finesse, the hole will be practically invisible. If you can't find the rafter tails, you can attach the gutter with
1/4" X 6" hot-dipped lag bolts. I've used this type of fastener to attach aluminum gutters directly to 3/4" fascia when rafter tails were not where I needed them to be. If you use this attachment, install a lot of them- the attachment to a single 3/4" board is weak. I'd suggest 48" spacing. I'll admit that the bolt heads are clunky looking, but they'll hold your gutter up. Use a gutter spike and sleeve to punch a hole in the front and back of the gutter. Drill a
1/8" pilot hole through the fascia after withdrawing the spike. Squirt latex caulk into the pilot hole, put the spike sleeve in position and wind the lag bolt in.
my soffits are punched white aluminum sheet metal, about 5" width (if soffit=Horizontal venting) I will not remove the existing gutter, cause its too much to do considering what I want to do is rely on a string line, and try to bolster critical positions with extra hardware I'm gonna look into it, there is a chance I can see up the soffits at the electrical conduit cutout and by lifting it up. Thats why I have a squirrel in my attic, cause its just gravity holding it in. Then I'll have a little better idea of whats going on, and what to do. Now I have a better general idea of whats going on and what to do.
thanks
"Peter" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... On Wed, 23 May 2007 11:52:51 -0400, "bent" wrote:
Aluminum gutters do not, in my experience, come with prepunched holes. The gutter is held in position and the gutter spikes are driven through the gutter and sleeve (spacer) into the fascia. If the fascia is 3/4" material, the spike is located such that in penetrates the rafter tail. If the fascia is 2" lumber, the spike can be placed anywhere. I'm assuming that your soffit is constructed of 3/4" pine or redwood and that it has been wrapped with aluminum as part of a re-siding job or a facelift project. The aluminum now obscures the visual clues (nail heads, fascia joints) as to where the rafter tails are. So, you need to find the tails so that new, additional spikes can be driven or you need an attachment that does not rely on the rafter. To find the tails, you might have success with an old-fashioned type stud finder that uses a magnet to find the nails that hold the fascia to the rafter tail. You will need to remove the gutter to do this. I have never tried a magnetic finder through aluminum, so I can't say whether it will work. Another method of locating the tails is with a drill bit. Remove the gutter, chuck a 1/16" bit into your drill, and drill a hole through the aluminum and fascia directly below an existing spike, about 2" above the bottom edge of the soffit, and where the reinstalled gutter will hide the holes. The idea is to get the feel of what drilling into a rafter tail is like. Now drill a hole to the left or right of an existing spike at a multiple of 16". It is likely that you will find a tail, as 16" is the common rafter spacing. Look in your attic to confirm this spacing. If the rafters are at 24" centers, adjust the test hole spacing accordingly. If your test hole is a miss, move
1" to the left and right and drill additional holes. Sooner or later, you will find a rafter tail. A light touch and sensitive hand is required to do this successfully. You can plug the holes in the aluminum with a shot of latex caulk; if done with finesse, the hole will be practically invisible. If you can't find the rafter tails, you can attach the gutter with
1/4" X 6" hot-dipped lag bolts. I've used this type of fastener to attach aluminum gutters directly to 3/4" fascia when rafter tails were not where I needed them to be. If you use this attachment, install a lot of them- the attachment to a single 3/4" board is weak. I'd suggest 48" spacing. I'll admit that the bolt heads are clunky looking, but they'll hold your gutter up. Use a gutter spike and sleeve to punch a hole in the front and back of the gutter. Drill a
1/8" pilot hole through the fascia after withdrawing the spike. Squirt latex caulk into the pilot hole, put the spike sleeve in position and wind the lag bolt in.
btw, wrt my (small red-type) squirrel problem, this is what I an planning to do: any comments? They have a roof below from which to push off and squeeze into for a couple few feet of the soffit run (on the extension).
I have two options:
(1) mix up some JBWeld plastic steel 2 part epoxy (5 min drying time), and just dab it and just let it sit in gravity, or hang some weight off the soffit punched out slots. The problem with this method is that I am not sure what kind of prep I will be able to do, and how much contact area I will have. I prefer this method, but so far have not made it first likelyhood.
(2) cut and fit some sheet metal, paint it white, and fit and fasten it with either a rivet gun or SS screws. More work but I can ensure a finished job. The fit of the soffit is tentative - I don`t think there is much contact where the L trim and the soffit _ itself touch (overlap in gravity fit), due to installation methods (about 5`wide with L and mirrored L to sit on). Its not really bad, just not a lot of room to maneuver. Originally I was gonna make a spring-loaded flap and just hope they all could squeeze out - but I have since cut out a square in my drywall ceiling and can ENSURE the squirrels are absolutely out of the attic BEFORE work begins.
having written this, I like the epoxy option more now because before there was more of a stability requirement due to the flap, which there is not now.
The AL gutter clips I mentioned in an earlier response will nail into the roof decking (under the shingles, just lift them up). You can put in as many as you need.
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