Electrical planning- kitchen- # of circuits

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We can agree to disagree. I don't think that future ignorance of electrical workers is a sufficient reason to rule out multiwire branch circuits (Edison circuits). There is a non-trivial benefit to using them, in terms of the resources saved, copper. Plus whenever both legs are drawing simultaneously, the voltage drop in the circuit is less than it would be with two separate circuits.
Yours, Wayne
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On Tue, 05 Feb 2008 17:12:10 GMT, Wayne Whitney

OK, we can agree on that... I really liked your last point, interesting thought! <g>
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You don't read so good, do you? No one mentioned removing half of a breaker.
S. Barker wrote:

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I read fine and if you had read replies, you'd see i made a reply saying i see what he meant.
s

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On Sun, 3 Feb 2008 19:56:20 -0600, "S. Barker"

Actually not that long ago. (sorry, but yes, I've seen them fail)...
My biggest problem is with the person who comes along 'next' and does something *really* stupid, mainly because he doesn't realize that it is an Edison wired circuit. I see people doing things with limited knowledge, and the odds that it will come back and 'bite' them are really bad!
When working with electrical systems, things need to be as foolproof as possible, there are just too many fools running around in today's world.

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Unless codes have changed since I wired our house in 2004, "multiwire" (edison circuits) were allowed by code (210.4A) and were quite common for kitchen circuits.
Having said that, I did install separate breakers and run individual lines to my two kitchen circuits. I just liked the idea of keeping circuits separated.
I generally reserve the use of 3 conductor cables to appliances that need 240V, or in situations where I want both an always on hot (the black wire), and a switched hot (the red wire). For example, I used 12/3 in our living room to run to all the outlets, with the red wire controlled by a light switch. With a simple wire change at the outlet, I can configure it to be always on, or switched by the light switch. Works great for moving the Christmas tree around.
I also used 12/3 for some of the kitchen lights. It was a long cable run from the switches on the end of the counter, down under the floor, up a 14' tall wall, and back down along the ceiling. I used the black wire for the light over the sink, and the red wire for the overhead ceiling lights. Both on the same circuit, of course. It saved over 50' of extra cable.
Anthony
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wrote:

As long as there is only one breaker, then that is great! I like you using the two wires to allow individual configuration of outlets from switched to unswitched... Again, on the same breaker that's a good trick.
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wrote:

OK, sounds good.

OK, but best have two circuits.

No, don't share, make this its own circuit.

No, once circuit for each. Both are high draw applicances and will not work well together on one circuit.

I'm conservative, others will say I'm nuts, but... Seperate circuits for dishwasher, disposal, two for outlets, one for dedicated hood/microwave, one for lighting and misc, one for fridge, one for stove. If the stove does not have a built-in outlet, then that 'stove' outlet should be on one of your two outlet circuits.
Make 100% sure the main box can handle the load, that the wireing from the meter to the box is sufficient as well. You have to assume that at some point you will have the stove, microwave, dishwasher, and disposal all on at one time, and then there's the coffee pot, and the toster oven to consider. That's a big power draw there, so everything downstream needs to be able to handle it.
It may make sense to have the local utility come out and ensure that their meter and wires to the meter will handle the loads as well.
Of course, use a licensed electrian for the actual work.

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For what it's worth -- which probably is not much -- you can't have too many outlets in the kitchen.
I lost my home under construction to Hurricane Katrina and have since moved to eastern Virginia where Sweet Thing and I purchased a lot and will break ground this week. We are renting a huge house -- 3,500 sq ft, on the market for almost $800,000 but it sits dead in the water because of the real estate bust -- no buyers so the owner is renting it to us.
The current owner -- my landlord -- purchased this house and "upgraded" the kitchen. Her upgrade consisted of granite countertops, ( faux ) cherry cabinets, and stainless appliances -- and the kitchen is damn near worthless because:
-- There are only three duplex outlets in the kitchen ( not counting the one buried behind the fridge and the dedicated lines for the dishwasher and stove igniters ). -- Those three outlets are arranged along the wall behind the sink. -- No one thought to put lights under the cabinets, so, she stuck a couple of after-market fluorescents under each cabinet -- the cords for these dangle down over the counter and plug into the outlets, thereby occupying 1/3 of the outlets with the under-cabinet lights. -- Across the kitchen from the sink is a perfect work area -- a 13- foot long granite counter, 2 feet deep, with a prep sink, adjacent to the fridge and pantry, lots of room for slicing, dicing, chopping, washing, etc., -- EXCEPT -- there's not a single outlet anywhere close to this counter -- no place to plug in blender, toaster, food processor, electric skillet, or anything else. So -- when we cook for a crowd, which we do 3-4 times a month, I run two heavy-duty extension cords from the kitchen, one into the dining room, one out into the hall, and plug them into 15-amp outlets to get power for food processor, blender, and the like. Yes, I know this is not smart but what else am I to do?
In the new house that I'm building, I'm putting a sub-panel for the kitchen with 20A outlets all over the place.
And granite countertops and stainless appliances are not what they're knocked up to be.
( By the way, the landlord "upgraded" the bathroom, too, but that's another story -- wall tiles on the shower floor so it's as slick as snot on a doorknob -- and that's just the beginning. )
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On Mon, 4 Feb 2008 10:33:35 -0800 (PST), Old Redneck
This thread is old and most likely not perused but on the chance you'll see it,
Ping Old Redneck..........
Do they have building codes in Virginia that they/contractors follow?
Did this lady use a contractor or some friend........anyway, what it sounds like she did not "upgrade" her kitchen and bath, it's more like a downgrade and is also a contributing factor in the property not selling. That long countertop would have a proper number of small appliance receptacles spaced accordingly. Even a 12" counter between a a stove and fridge would require one, so your long one is really out of compliance.
For those that don't want to hire an electrician to do the work, at least pay one to advise you of minimum requirements. Money well spent.
I sometime install PLUGMOLD made by WIREMOLD strips if I can find an inconspicuos spot to put it if the homeowner tells me they want more than the norm. They have configurations for multiple circuits in the catalog.
Have fun building your house!
Regards.
RP
Knowledge is like money, the less you talk about it the more people assume you have.
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