electrical detached garage ?

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TV, stereo, table lamps, that sort of stuff. Seems to me that if I have to put the 3/4 bath on it's own circuit and I'm running a 20amp circuit for the wet bar I don't really need a 20amp circuit for the outlets in the rest of the room. When you do that you also buy the 20amp outlets instead of the 15amp ones?
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The only time you are required to use a 20 amp receptacle is when the receptacle is fed by a dedicated 20 amp circuit. It's very common to use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp branch circuit. Given the minimial price difference between 14/2 and 12/2 Romex, I think it makes sense to only run 20 amp circuits.
Cheers, Wayne
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Interesting. I would have thought that would be a problem. After all you could pull 20amps through one outlet without causing a fault if it's breakered at 20amps. Not that I really have a problem with it since I realize in real life you are much more likely to have several loads that add up. Just sort of surprised cause it seems like the sort of thing that would be disallowed by the code.
I am going to use 20 amp outlets on the 20 amp circuit in the garage circuit but there is a lot more chance of a single large load in a garage.
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My understanding is that, at least for spec grade and above, the innards of a 15 amp and 20 amp receptacle are identical; the only difference is the extra slot for the T-shaped neutral prong. I've never even seen any equipment with a 20 amp plug, so practically there is little value to the 20 amp receptacle.
Cheers, Wayne
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That's really good to know. Perhaps I'll just use the regular outlets on the garage floor then. I agree, never see anything with that odd plug. Thanks :-)
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Wayne Whitney wrote:

Actually you worded that wrong. The only time you are required to use a "20A" outlet is when it is the ONLY SINGLE (not duplex) outlet on the circuit.
steve
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in. In other words, DO NOT place the 15A outlet so that it interrupts the circuit. Use short pieces of 12ga wire to pigtail the outlet across the uninterrupted 20A line. I believe any other way of wiring would be a code violation, just as if you wired part of the circuit with 14ga wire. In either case, you are putting something rated for less than breakered capacity into the circuit, and are asking for trouble. The design philosophy is that everything downstream of the breaker must be rated to at least the capacity of the breaker, if not higher. You are allowed to put a 15A outlet in with a pigtail, because you cannot draw more than 15A through it unless you've been mucking with the plugs. If you wire a 15A outlet into a 20A circuit using the standard 'screw in - screw out', then you have placed a 15A rated device into a 20A current path, which means that now that outlet is the least rated device in the circuit, and not the circuit breaker. Not a good idea.
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tim wrote:

Any multi cable outlet should be pigtailed anyway. BUT, the outlet rating does not dictate the passthrough using the screws.
s
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

nope, it's not needed or required. In fact, i've never seen in my whole life a need for the "20A" outlets.
steve
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On Thu, 26 Feb 2009 18:14:14 -0600, Steve Barker

<g> I have seen the need... I got a bunch of outlet strips once(Tripplite ones, nice--designed for use on back of workbenches). They had 20 amp plugs on them! The *only* time I've seen 20A plugs on a commercial product.
But they were easily fixed, a pair of needle nose pliers and a 90 degree twist and they magically fit a standard 15A outlet just fine!
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TV, stereo, table lamps, that sort of stuff. Seems to me that if I have to put the 3/4 bath on it's own circuit and I'm running a 20amp circuit for the wet bar I don't really need a 20amp circuit for the outlets in the rest of the room. When you do that you also buy the 20amp outlets instead of the 15amp ones?
*Whenever I use 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit I pigtail the receptacles instead of feedthrough. For feedthrough on a 20 amp circuit I always use 20 amp receptacles. The exception to this is 15 amp GFI receptacles that are also rated for 20 amp feedthrough. I am not familiar with every brand and grade of receptacles, but unless it states rated for 20 amp feedthrough on the package or the device I would not use it that way. I know that many electricians and inspectors accept the 15 amp device as feedthrough, but I have yet to see documentation from a manufacturer stating that it is approved for that purpose. One of these days I will contact some manufacturers and see what they say about this.
Most of the time you don't see an appliance or tool for home that has a 20 amp plug on it. It is usually in commercial, industrial or restaurant locations that you see equipment with a 20 amp plug on it.
You may just want to wire everything for 20 amps since you will have only a few circuits. It could cut down on leftover wire at the end of the job. However you might need to increase some of your box sizes to accommodate the larger conductors.
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Got a bunch of lights to do as well so I'll need some 14/2 anyway. But the box I got was one of those "value packages" that came with 5 20 amp breakers so I might as well run 12/2 for all the outlets. You pigtail instead of using the push in connection to carry on? I can see that since I'm often finding poor connections using the push in. Ever just not cut the wire, instead strip a section and loop it on the screw terminals?
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You can do lights in 12/2, it is just a little more trouble. Since you say the breakers you already have are 20 amps, it would save you the trouble of getting 15 amp breakers.

"Push-in" connectors on receptacles are only approved for #14 wire. I prefer spec grade receptacles with back-wire, screw-tightened pressure plates. As for pigtailing, I don't bother except where required (the EGC, and the neutral conductor on MWBCs).
Cheers, Wayne
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Got a bunch of lights to do as well so I'll need some 14/2 anyway. But the box I got was one of those "value packages" that came with 5 20 amp breakers so I might as well run 12/2 for all the outlets. You pigtail instead of using the push in connection to carry on? I can see that since I'm often finding poor connections using the push in.
"Ever just not cut the wire, instead strip a section and loop it on the screw terminals?"
*Yes I have done that and it would be considered a tap so it is acceptable. Stay away from using the spring loaded push-in terminals. Use a better grade of receptacle. Use GFI receptacles in the bathroom, garage, kitchenette and outdoors. By pigtailing, the full load of the circuit will not be passing through the receptacles which tends to make the first receptacle in line the weakest link.
You can use a 20 amp circuit for lighting also.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

YES, always. The pushin's are for 14ga only and the ONLY time i use them is on a single pole switch feeding a SINGLE light with 14 ga wire.

NOPE. that's more of a pain than any benefit (i can't figure out a benefit).
s
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You may be interested to know that UL says they test 15 amp receptacles for 20 amps feedthrough. The information is unfortunately missing from the UL directory I found on line, but see UL's response at the bottom of this thread:
<http://forums.mikeholt.com/archive/index.php/t-61043.html
Cheers, Wayne
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wrote:

*Thanks for posting that Wayne. That's the first official statement that I have seen that indicates that 15 amp receptacles have been tested for 20 amp circuits. Judging by all of the posts there has been a lot of confusion over this. It would be nice if the manufacturers just stated the approval on the packaging.
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NEC article 250-32(b)(1)
Its called a "grounding rod". He will also need the appropriate gauge bare copper wire and copper clamp for the grounding rod.
The ground from the main panel is not connected at the secondary location's subpanel.
--
Dave

CDOs are how we got here.
  Click to see the full signature.
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Interesting. Code here in 2003 was only one grounding rod, (Actually two, 6' apart), at the service entrance only. All other sub panels needed 4 wires back to main panel.
Wonder if it is worth changing?

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I'm not the expert but I'm thinking that because the subpanel is located in a detached building that it also must have a ground rod AND 4 wires back. If anyone is sure about otherwise I'm glad to hear it cause it's save me a couple bucks on the ground rod :-)
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