Doorbell always uses electricity!

[Bill]

A new energy saving project for me!

I thought the doorbell project was about the last thing I could do around my house to save any more on my electric bill... Until I read your post above!

What a great idea! Actually I have a crawl space and it is quite cold down there in the fall/winter/spring. And I also like fresh air. And my refrigerator uses a fan to blow air over the condenser coil...

So how about a vent from the crawl space attached to an air intake on the bottom of my refrigerator? I imagine one of those 4" flexible dryer hoses would be a large enough vent for this?

Anyway cold air would come in the dryer vent hose from a 4" hole drilled in the floor, then the refrigerator would not need to work as hard.

Then I would get fresh warm air each time the refrigerator ran.

Problems with this are that some refrigerators do not have fans, just a coil on the back. I suppose you could build an insulated chamber which exposed the back to the outside air for this? Better yet would be the back and sides of the refrigerator as well.

Then also some houses are sealed so tight these days, they would not allow any air to be blown into the house because there would be no exit. I suppose you could exhaust the air back into the crawl space.

Or if the exit air vent was on one side of the house, and the wind was blowing toward that vent, there might be positive air pressure coming into the exit vent and this would cause the fan to not be able to blow air over the condenser coils or air might flow backwards.

Anyway something to think about. Maybe new homes could have a refrigerator chamber exposed to the outside via vents or refrigerators could have optional connection(s) for 4" (or whatever) flexible hose to connect to the crawlspace/outside. (Like a dryer does.)

A screen or air filter on the vent openings would be a good idea.

[meow2222]

I believe you already said that. Its good to have real figures.

Unfortunately its not current that counts, but power. Idle current on transformers does not havea power factor of 1.

sounds like your meter's faulty

NT

[Sam E]

[snip]

That's much better.

Power to the wall-wart is AC. The load on that converter is a transformer, which REQUIRES AC. A transformer will not work with DC.

The quote I responded to is "They dont have any transformer that uses power all the time". That's the "no power".

After writing that I realized that the transformer could be eliminated by operating the voltage regulator on line voltage (possibly practical with a switching regulator). That would eliminate the transformer, as well as the (input / output) isolation which is required for safety.

[Jim Redelfs]

Heating.

That does not affect the efficiency of the heat production. What HAPPENS to the heat is not germane to my claim of 100% efficiency.

Your points, of course, are well considered AND considerable if operating cooling equipment within the same environment.

The electric furnace I owned for 13-years was likewise efficient. If one turned-off the lights at night and peered into the device, dim light could be seen - waste light.

[Jim Redelfs]

More POWER to you!

[Jim Redelfs]

That's not "insane".

Instead, I PREFER to spend that $2/month rather than have to remember to close the power strip switch every time I wish to watch TV or use whatever else is connected to the power strip - that used to be connected full-time and available without second thought. That is the price I willingly pay for such convenience.

How about "reduce INCREASING energy consumption"?

Conservation will not actually REDUCE the level of consumption. It will only reduce the INCREASE and, perhaps unfortunately, not by much.

Also, the "need" to reduce is debatable.

[clare]

True, as I stared before - however if there is no CURRENT draw, there is no POWER. The ones that draw no current consume no power. Those that draw .o5A consume somewhat less than the calculated 5.85 watts at

117 volts.

Nope. 0 amps indicated means less than 0.01 amp. As I clearly stated, accurate to 0.01 amp.

[George]

But lots of folks think otherwise. Thats just your rationalization as to why waste is OK.

[Dave Garland]

In the heating season, the humidity from such indoor drying is beneficial. There are also inexpensive folding wooden drying racks which work well so long as you do not generate massive quantities of damp laundry at one time. In my experience, a large folding rack can dry a moderate machine-load of laundry, so long as it does not include more than one sheet.

Assuming one has space to set a rack up without it being in the way, they're no more work than a power dryer, although it may take a day for the load to dry.

Dave

[Dave Garland]

It very much depends on exactly what you mean by "efficient". It is true that virtually 100% of the energy used for resistance heating is converted to heat.

But it is also true that using the same amount of energy to run, say, a heat pump, will deliver significantly more heat. That doesn't make heat pumps more than 100% efficient (they're not).

It is also true that you can generate more heat by directly using the same quantity of natural gas as was used to produce the energy, even though the typical gas furnace is probably not more than 90% efficient.

Dave

[Dave Garland]

Yes. I've been thinking of doing that for the last 40 years. It would work best if you could build the refrigerator into the house (think walk-in cooler, but smaller, or the undercounter fridges found in bars). You'd need a fan to circulate outside (cold) air in, and dampers to close off from the outside, and a controller to regulate the dampers & fan and switch to powered refrigeration when the outside temperature is warmer than refrigerator-interior temperature. Ditto for the freezer, though even in Minnesota there isn't that long a period when outside temperature stays below 0 degrees F. (But outside air could be used to cool the coils of the powered refrigeration and increase its efficiency.) For that (in Minnesota) you could avoid much of the refrigeration energy for maybe 3 months, and get some unknown improvement most of the rest of the year.

One side benefit is that if you're building the fridge, you're not constrained to fitting insulation within a thin metal shell, you can insulate as much as you want. The dampers and the door would be the parts that were harder to insulate.

But it does sound like a lot of work to accomplish.

Dave

[Rod Speed]

Sam E wrote

Yes.

will not work with DC.

Doesnt mean that the wallwart is AC to AC overall, most of them are AC to DC overall and you dont have to have a transformer in it.

all the time". That's the "no power".

Nope.

Precisely.

That doesnt have to be done with a transformer.

[Red Green]

"Bill" wrote in news: [e-mail]:

Bad idea. Musty air. Could pull in some nasty bio crud as well. Then there's the wildlife under there!

The frig makers wouldn't like it. They'd have to make an eco and non-eco version of RFs' for different climates. Then the home construction industry would have to start allowing for it in design and construction. Then there's the consumer aspect. "You want a $400 frig or the same bare boes thing in eco for $800?. Or, you can get a really nice non-eco one with bells and whistles for 800.".

[Craig M]

[Jim Redelfs]

No doubt. For good or ill, I believe they are VASTLY outnumbered.

Waste is NOT "OK". However, one man's "waste" is another man's "useful purpose".

[Sam E]

will not work with DC.

Yes, although you might have noticed I wasn't talking about "overall", but about the circuitry that comes before the transformer.

Care to explain how the non-transformer wall-wart changes voltage?

all the time". That's the "no power".

OK I did make a mistake there, by assuming the presence of a transformer. How would you do it (convert 120V to 12V or so) without a transformer?

I guess that's the "faith based" method :-)

[Mark Lloyd]

Also, many TVs "forget" settings (at least on/off status) when power is removed. This adds to the work you have to do when you turn it back on.

[Rod Speed]

Sam E wrote

That is what was being discussed tho.

That wasnt what was being discussed.

Most obviously with the low current use of a capacitor.

Nothing to stop you just rectifying the mains, then just doing a switch mode chopping that up and rectifying to a lower voltage without transformer either.

See above.

Guess again.

[Don Klipstein]

A true RMS one? If th meter is a true RMS one, it will boast about that.

I have trouble a Variac that size not drawing a watt or two, And aren't they rated in VA and not watts?

- Don Klipstein ( [e-mail])

[Don Klipstein]

If it indicates less than .01 amp for that Variac, and the Variac is not disconnected somehow, I doubt the emeter is accurate at all.

- Don Klipstein ( [e-mail])