Boise "I" Beams

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You can make stuff foolproof but you can't make stuff idiotproof. Most people's ranges and airhandlers do not catch fire so there is no need to make everyone pay for stuff (air flow sensors, overheat protection) that they'll never use.
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Most protection devices are never used, they are a safety net. Those items are cheap.
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Everything's cheap, until you're forced to buy 100 of them. Common sense is free and its the ultimate safety device. Nook the Whales!
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Only one per unit.
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If they're that cheap then you shouldn't have a problem with paying for them. ALL of them. heh Whats that, you don't want to pay for all of them? Well I don't want to pay for them either, not even one of them. The diff is, YOU want them and I don't. You see John, I keep my a/c filter clean and I don't talk on the phone while cooking so your so called safety nets won't help me. Conversely, even if there are 100 safety nets on every single thing there will still be idiots doing stupid things.
Onward.
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I would fit them, however they should be fitted as standard.

You may do, however find out what safety devices are for.
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Don wrote:

NFPA has a code for sprinklers in residential homes (NFPA 13R). I think the issue has been raised before and may have been shot down by consumer advocates and GCs.
After doing a quick google, it seems the trend has been started.
http://firechief.com/awareness/firefighting_maryland_county_law /
Marcello
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marcenmoni> wrote

Its been evolving for some time now in SW FL. Naples was the first, about 10 years ago, to require all residences over 4,000 sf living area to have sprinklers. In Lee County they incorporated *pockets* of residential categories to have them. Most of my work over the past 10 years has been on the assorted islands and all of them have differing rules pertaining to this, as well as many other things. North Captiva requires that if the lowest portion of the floor framing members ABOVE the pilings are more than 11' above *existing* grade then sprinklers are required regardless of size. Useppa has no requirement for sprinklers, which is odd considering the home values there are at least twice what they are on North Cap. Boca Grande requires sprinklers in homes where the first finished floor is less than 10' above finished grade. And on and on.
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Don wrote:

Welcome to my world. There are probably fifteen or twenty villages and five towns within a five mile radius. They all have their own modified building codes and building departments. This is one of the prices you pay when everyone wants to maintain their community's individuality.
R
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"RicodJour"> wrote

Fun innit? Last year the chief plans examiner for Lee County called me up and asked me how to determine the finished floor height for the island of Cayo Costa. Seriously. This guy is like god at the building dept and he called me! There are very few homes on Cayo Costa and he remembered that I had done several out there. His assistant, an AIA architect, almost begged me to teach him Autocad. LOL
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If the municipality requires sprinklers in single-family homes, how do they enforce head replacement? Sounds like a buracratic nightmare.
Don wrote:

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A plan must be submitted for approval indicating all head specifications and locations. There are engineers that do just that sort of thing. I've done many such plans in the past and it can get pretty intense. Few years back they started breaking up attic spaces into bite size pieces seperated by firewalls and these spaces are sprinklered too, as well as various other places where fire can get into and perhaps chase to other areas of the building.

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Say the cost to replace a typical sprinkler head is $250 each and the typical house has 20 heads. Are the homeowers really going to pay out $4000 every 10 years to replace the heads? How does the gov't enforce it? Does the insurance company enforce it? Or do they just leave them alone and hope that they work in 30 years when they need them? Also, are the individuals required to maintain replacement heads like commercial/multifamily buildings are?
I don't know. This just seems like something that will get overlooked.
Don wrote:

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I don't know how it works for private residences but in multi-family and commercial applications the fire marshall does yearly inspections. I'm pretty certain sprinkler heads are a lot less than $250 each to replace. Seems like a complete installation in a 2000 sf house is in the $7000.00 range more or less.
In my last house I had the pool installer add an extra inlet to my filter and I roughed in the piping in my attic (1" sched 40 PVD) and after the CO was issued I went ahead and installed (4) 360 degree Rainbird lawn sprinklers on the backside of the roof ridge of the house. This was a very rural area with lots of tall pines everywhere and during the dry season they frequently turn into torches, so I wanted to be able to access my 17,000 gallons of pool water to douse and keep the house wet in the event of a forest fire.

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Don wrote:

That's a good, inexpensive way to do it. But if I were spending your money, besides being in the poor house ages ago, you would have placed the pool on the roof in the first place, stuck in a glass bottom, built a bar lounge underneath it and have a two drink minimum with cover charge. It would have paid for itself in no time. I'm also seeing an endless pool edge turning into waterfalls that cascade over the windows below. Hugh Hefner would have been calling you up asking if he could bring the girls over to hang out for a while.
"Hi, Don, it's me Hef. The Grotto is getting a little old and I was wondering if I could bring over six or eight of my girlfriends for a party next week - all week, if that's okay with you. You know how they are once they get started."
Poor house is starting to sound like a reasonable trade off, isn't it? ;)
R
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How about sharks in there and a big seat for Blofeld?
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"RicodJour"> wrote

I'm gonna hire this dood to design my next crib! ...bring the girls over......LOL
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These are cheap insurance for your stove.
snipped-for-privacy@cpu-net.net wrote:

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About right. Some of the electrical installations I see in Latin countries is amazing. In Spain the lighting wiring was twisted bell wire in some places - Italy not much better. Overloaded circuits is common as they undersize wire to save money.
There is a distinct difference between the south and north of Europe to safety and regulation. The Latins ignore regulations as few of them are policed. Regulations and directives issued from the UE from Brussels equally ignored. Prosecutions are rare indeed. Someone mentioned that some buildings are erected without planning permission or probably Building Control (building inspector). In the UK this just can't happen. If a building is being erected without PP it will be stopped immediately and they would be told to demolish in most cases - we have problems with people from third world countries who think the UK is like where they come from, and when they are told otherwise they still go on (deportation job to me, as you do things our way). If a building or extension does mange to be erected they will be told to vacate that part and demolish. If they do not the council demolish and charge the owner, if they cannot pay they possess the property, sell and take their expenses from that. Latin countries in many respects are third world when it comes to building services and safety regulations.
If someone is hurt because of poor stair, ingress and egress design, they blame the victim for not looking. Designing out problems is way down the list, economy and looks is all.
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John wrote:

Not to rain on your parade, but comparing the stats from here
http://www.communities.gov.uk/index.asp?id24893
to the Italian one, it seems that number of electrical fires in the UK are not that far from those in Italy. There were 11,190 fires related to electrical distribution and appliances, versus 12,500 cited by the Italians. UK has a population of roughly 59m (2005 figures) to Italy 57m , so you get a ratio of 1 fire per 5273 persons in the UK, to 1 per 4560 in Italy.
On the other hand UK cites 519,000 fires over the whole territory, versus 190,000 in Italy, which I find a very strange disparity. And yet UK cites 477,000 false alarms versus the 21,000 cited in Italy, so clearly there are reporting differences.
Nevertheless, in the detailed categories there are some similarities. It seems the British have similar problems with chimneys (12,000 UK to 7,400 in Italy), but they are more careful with their cigarettes (4,336 UK to 7,400 Italy). Unfortunately Italy doesn't report kitchen related fires, only 15,387 other causes (and electrical is one figure, titled 'general electrical causes'), so it becomes impossible to compare kitchen fires in homes.
Comparing with the US, the 27,248 kitchen fires reported in UK constitutes over 50% of total residential fires (47,769 total), while in the US, kitchen ignited fires are 26% of residential fires. So it seems the Brits are even more inattentive than the Americans when it comes to cooking.
Despite that, residential fires in the UK are half those in the US: 48,000/59,000,000 UK versus 401,000/280,000,000 (.0008 to .0014). Yet, nonresidential fires in the US (115,000)are less than those in the UK (37,600), percentage-wise (.0004 US to .0006 UK).
For the rest of your broad stroke picture, as with all such overreaching generalities, it needs to be applied with care. To lump northern Italians, southern Italians and Spaniards together is like lumping the Danish, Irish and Brits together. There is a cultural bias in Italy of looking for ways to 'circumvent authority', but this is changing, and has been doing so over the past 20 years, especially in the north (meaning from the Alps to Rome.)
Marcello
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