Another Fence Question

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Planning on putting up a fence (for privacy barrier purposes - along with some new trees, etc).
Spoke to some local fence companies. They appear to have different methods of installing the posts.
One outfit made a big deal they install their posts approx 10' into the ground.
Another outfit, only goes a few feet (6 ? I forget).
Both claimed that cement was not needed around the posts.
What is "best practice" for fence post installation? Even researching it on the web revealed conflicting methods (irrespective of local soil conditions). I'm interested in doing it right the first time.
Haven't decided if vinyl fencing or cedar fencing is the way to proceed either.
Also, if I ordered the fence parts off, say an internet business, would a local contractor supply the labor ? (I presume, they'd have no incentive to do this, but i'm curious if anyone has done it). And no, i don't have the time (or probably skill/patience) to do a DIY fence installation.
Any thoughts / opinions from those with experience on a fence project ?
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wrote:

Depends on where you live and local requirements. Where I live, fences are not buried that deep. Two feet deep makes a very sturdy post in our local soils and climate.
There are three type of post on fence designs. They are corner posts, bracing posts, and line posts. Concrete is often used for corner and bracing posts. It is not usually necessary for line posts. It is certainly not necessary it the post are buried 6 to 10 feet deep. I have never heard of a fence post buried so deep but it may be necessary if you are in earthquake or hurricane prone areas.
I think you should at least price the materials yourself before you make a decision. A fencing contractor may insist on selling you the material but at least you will be in a position to bargain.
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DominicSantini wrote:

Well best practice depends on the area. In Florida sand, you would want it really deep. The general rule is that 1/3 of the post should be below ground. For a 6 foot fence you need a 9 foot post with three feet in the ground. Local ground conditions and considerations like having kids that are going to climb it, may require more.
--
Joseph Meehan

Dia \'s Muire duit
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This group should be renamed alt.ask.technical.questions.while.leaving.out.tons.of.essential.information

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my bad, thanks to all those who have replied so far.
the property is in Ocean County, NJ.
i'm not sure how to classify the soil. it supports a lawn of kentucky blue grass.
the fence plan is for nothing fancy (just plain old cedar or vinyl panels). in other words, no wrought iron fencing (incompatible w/the privacy barrier function).
to the other poster, no, the one contractor went out of his way to explain how he puts his posts 10' under grade. so i think he'd be using a 16' piece of wood. thinking it over, i agree that it's more marketing hype than substance.
the other contractor (i don't have the quote in front of me at the moment), but i believe he said 3' under grade (depth of the post).
i just want to be better prepared to separate the BS contractors from the ones with a legitimate plan that will conform to solid engineering practices.
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DominicSantini wrote:

The 10' deep contractor - either you misunderstood the whole time he was going out of his way to explain it to you, or he thought you were _really_ stupid. The difference in strength/stability between a post sunk 3' in the ground and one sunk 10' is on the order of 2%. There's no benefit and a shit load more work.
Tell you what. Ask to visit one of his job sites so you can see them dig a 10' deep fence post hole. Post pictures.*
R
* I won't be holding my breath.
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Yes, but if you SAY you're going to make the holes ten feet deep, can't you give a MUCH higher bid? After all, you'd have to bring in a caisson drilling rig to make a straight hole that deep, wouldn't you?
At least, that's what the Gypsies told me when they bid MY fence job.
Steve ;-)
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wrote:

I don't know much about fences, but I'd like to see the 16 foot fence posts. Sound expensive.
Actually, no fence involved, but I know someone who bought a used telephone pole, even longer than 16 feet. I think he only paid 5 dollars. But it was really expensive to erect it. Afte that, he switched to 2" metal pipe.

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wrote in message | >> > > Any thoughts / opinions from those with experience on | >> > > a fence project ? | >> | >> | >> my bad, thanks to all those who have replied so far. | >> | >> the property is in Ocean County, NJ. | >> | >> i'm not sure how to classify the soil. it supports a | >> lawn of kentucky blue grass. | >> | >> the fence plan is for nothing fancy (just plain old | >> cedar or vinyl panels). in other words, no wrought iron | >> fencing (incompatible w/the privacy barrier function). | >> | >> to the other poster, no, the one contractor went out | >> of his way to explain how he puts his posts 10' under | >> grade. so i think he'd be using a 16' piece of wood. | >> thinking it over, i agree that it's more marketing hype | >> than substance. | >> | >> the other contractor (i don't have the quote in front | >> of me at the moment), but i believe he said 3' under | >> grade (depth of the post). | >> | >> i just want to be better prepared to separate the | >> BS contractors from the ones with a legitimate plan | >> that will conform to solid engineering practices. | > | >The 10' deep contractor - either you misunderstood the whole time he | >was going out of his way to explain it to you, or he thought you were | >_really_ stupid. The difference in strength/stability between a post | >sunk 3' in the ground and one sunk 10' is on the order of 2%. There's | >no benefit and a shit load more work. | > | >Tell you what. Ask to visit one of his job sites so you can see them | >dig a 10' deep fence post hole. Post pictures.*
| | I don't know much about fences, but I'd like to see the 16 foot fence | posts. Sound expensive.
they are called " telephone poles" put your name on the list at your local town hall. they will give them to you for free as they come available.
| || | >Retardo | > | >* I won't be holding my breath.
I wish you would for about 20 minutes. |
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At five bucks a piece, you could build a really cheap stockade.
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:

You Canadians! Always thinking of life on the frontier.
BTW, when's my next shipment of beaver pelt coming in? ;)
R
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wrote in message

Bob: Hark! A Yankee calls from beyond the stockade! Doug: Whady say? Bob: Dunno. The STC rating of these telephone poles is awesome, eh?
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wrote in message

The next time you go to Hooters, that's when.
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16 ft 4x4's are available at any lumber yard.
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Lawrence wrote:

Have you personally ever heard of anyone burying a 4x4 fence post 10' deep? Me neither. How about this, as a little experiment, why not call up the largest, most experienced fence installer in your area and ask them if they've ever buried a fence post 10' deep. When the laughing dies down, post back and let us know what they said.
R
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Not any in the kansas city area. Maybe a 12'
--
Steve Barker

YOU should be the one
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It's not the post availability that's ridiculous, or expensive. It's the holes.
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
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I would imagine that it would take some special drilling rig to make a true vertical hole ten feet deep. Last post hole digger I saw was less than six feet, and the longest spoon shovel I have seen is about eight. (a spoon shovel is a special shovel designed to reach and retrieve the dirt that falls to the bottom of a drilled hole) Such drill rigs are expensive to rent, and take up a lot of space. Not something you can just get in and out of your back yard unless it's new construction and there's nothing there yet.
Steve
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The 16' post availability is questionable but possible, digging ten foot deep holes is extremely difficult but possible, but the real absurdity is _why_ dig such deep holes? There is _no_ structural or stability benefits, and there would be _greatly_ increased cost. Like the fence would cost at least twice what anyone else was charging.
Like I said before, the OP is either mistaking what the contractor said - mistaking 10' _long_ posts for posts sunk 10' _deep_, - or the contractor is taking him for a complete fool who won't be around to watch the holes being dug.
R
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I confess to not having check the local yard of 16-footers, but the hole thing is just silly.
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