True that washing machines in many parts of the world don't heat the washwater?

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E Z Peaces wrote:

Whatever happened to Cindy? Perhaps her Mac became rusty and she couldn't get back online?

Which one? Is it green?

Are you quite all there in the head? ( Don't mention the war)
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Mrs Bonk wrote:

It looked rusty, but she said it was barbecue sauce. I got an anonymous valentine from her yesterday.

Blue.
The powder I used to use was the #1 environmental brand. The "grease" showed up after I switched to the blue. "Putty" might be a better word because I was never worried about soiling my clothes.
I think it built up over years of using the environmental brand in lukewarm water, and the blue stuff got it loose.

keyboard with me to the shower, but that's not to compose messages. It's to control itunes, playing over my loudspeakers in the dining room.)
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E Z Peaces wrote:

How very sweet. Did she sign it?

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hm, sounds like the problem is with your powder, rather than anything else. otherwise, this group would be full of australians & americans wondering why their washing comes out as dirty as when it went in, wouldn't it? :-)
i agree that teatowels and certain garments (aprons, etc) exposed to cooking messes can be problematic. i'm not suggesting that a cold wash is the total solution to every washing need! i often soak teatowels in hot water with detergent (or in a worst-case scenario, sard or napisan). then i wash them in cold :-) clothes with greasy spots: i spray the spots with a bit of stain remover beforehand. in both these cases the items come out as nicely as i would wish.
i'm not just making this up, you know. i wouldn't recommend anything that doesn't actually work! ;-) but the fact is that most clothes, when washed, just weren't that dirty in the first place. anything that's greasy or extremely dirty might need a little prior treatment, that's all - but then, they still may need pre-treatment if they were washed hot, wouldn't they, because hot water in & of itself also won't solve every washing problem, & (as i'm sure you know, being a Clean and Knowlegable lady) with certain stains it will set them & make the problem worse or permanent.

if it's electric you'll be paying in the long run ;-)
i was not accusing you of being worked up. just stating that i myself wouldn't get worked up about washing labels - yours, mine, or anyone's. like i said: they lie. they are only recommendations based on the manufacturer not wanting things returned because people buggered up the washing method, that's all. a basic knowledge of fabrics, dyes & washing methods is all anyone needs to know - and many people don't even know _that_ but their washing is spanking clean & their clothes are in good order :-) (it's not rocket science - it's only doing the washing).

tbh, i found that page to be somewhat hysterical. indeed, we could all be planning in advance to avoid disasters and mishaps of every imaginable kind, but the reality is that the worst usually doesn't happen & planning for every horrific possibility (grunge in the washing machine! mon dieu!) would only make life more difficult than it has to be.
as i am trying to say, excess greasiness is 1: not most peoples' problem anyway and 2: countered by using a washing powder that is effective in cold water (if the cold-water powder removes residual greasiness from clothes, it is rather likely to do so from the machine also). i promise you that they exist. the one i use is not only effective on all our washing (with a few items pre-treated, just as anyone would) but is also free of petrochemicals and phosphorus and designed to be used in greywater systems without harm to plants.
it's possible that with factors here (cold washing being the norm, greywater use rapidly becoming very common) that manufacturers have been obliged to ensure their products actually work well under such "normal" conditions. if, however, you are reliant on powders designed solely for hot-water use and manufactured from petrochemicals, and on washing soda (which is salt), you should probably not become too attached as i can foresee a day when such products are withdrawn from sale.

you are a woman of many talents!!
i'll tell you one thing, mrs b.: when a person lives in a situation where they are wholly and solely resposible not only for obtaining their water in the first place, but also directing where it ends up again (in other words, a situation where there is no town water & no sewage, such as at my place) they rethink such issues as this and are no longer inclined (if they ever were) to use unnecessary interventions on their washing. i would not and could not use washing soda, bleach, and so forth in general wash water, as it would kill my garden. not only would hot washing be an unseemly hassle (the need to get the water from some other tap) but it would waste my energy and would mean the hot water (solar and/or wood-fired depending on the weather) is used up unnecessarily. if i had a self-heating machine, it would unnecessarily drain energy (again, solar and wind) which would be much better used for other purposes. in short, when what one is using and what one is releasing as by-products are never one's own problem that needs to be dealt with oneself, one will almost invariably be wasting resources & creating problems along the line. myself, i don't waste resources partly because i am disinclined by nature, and partly because the only people who would suffer are me and my family. if these little realities were shared among the general public, behaviour would change extremely rapidly. most people are buffered from the effects of their own behaviour because the end results are somewhere down the track & no connection is made, and clothes-washing is merely one tiny example among many. :-) kylie
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0tterbot wrote:

Hello dear. It's is so nice of you to write back, even though we can't agree on this we can talk sensibly unlike some others in the groups who resort to insults. Today I used a liquid detergent and a cold wash. I noticed the wash was very bubbly compared to my normal wash. The clothes were not dirty, just worn about the house a few times so it wasn't a test as such then I realised my new machine had a "freshener" wash so maybe that would have done as well. I am not so sure you're right about everyone in America and Australia using a cold wash therefore the groups are not full of whingers, so to speak - the way I read it, mostly from Phish, is that the machines don't normally have heaters so they are filled from another source with hot and cold to whatever temperature is suited for the fabric/stain.

I don't understand your meaning here. I will be paying a considerable amount less than I would be paying if I lit my main oven. They are both electric but as one is very small it heats quicker and uses far less energy than the other, less too than a gas stove, which is something I would prefer but can't have. I suppose I could cook on a fire of some sort but would soon have the council after me as I live in a smokeless zone. :)

There are plenty of posts about brown stains on washing. There are plenty of people moaning about the short life of modern appliances. If there is a green washing powder that stops this muck and allows a cold wash for not too dirty items ( I will always wash whites/towels/sheets in hot regardless) then we should know about it.

I have always had to look after myself dear. Not that I would wish it any other way.

I have given much thought to your last paragraph. Today I went to see my carbon footprint, it was a third of the average UK person so I am pleased on that and it gave me some food for thought as to how to reduce further. I have always leaned to green whenever possible ( I used to be a hippy believe it or not and still go to Glastonbury often) When I go to my accommodation in Scotland, up in the Highlands, then I too can enjoy living in a similar style with wood burning stoves, solar panels, well water etc. (Wind farming is at this time causing much dissent up there so I am staying out of that one) however, here in the South West where I work in a town and at present live then it is a different story, no room to swing a cat, a lot without a garden, reliant totally on mains water etc. I can only do my best and dream of the day I will retire and leave to live elsewhere and grow my own veg in a plot away from traffic fumes, ctc cameras and the anti yob Mosquito that only the children are supposed to hear. Today I learned I can have my TV licence printed online thereby saving a little more,envelope/stamp etc. I rarely watch TV so maybe I should go the whole hog and get rid of it and save myself £135.50 too, I doubt though I would convince them my computer wasn't used for TV watching and they would soon be snooping around with their van to try to catch me and have me up in court. Oh dear. I am waffling again.
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i have no idea what americans would be doing - that is up to them to report. as far as i can work out, they're addicted to tumble dryers, so i try not to read those threads - they make me cringe.
i do know that NOW, most australians use cold, most of the time. which isn't the same as all the time. i myself was psychologically dependent on hot water for whites until fairly recently, actually. it's a hard hurdle to jump ;-)

that's right. a hot wash comes from the hot tap.

sorry, i was assuming a gas stove - again, those being the norm here. i had an electric one at one house we rented - heavens, they're inadequate compared to gas! hence the saying, which i think came from an ad long ago, "now we're cooking with gas!" i.e. now we are making actual progress. :-)
i can't speak for you & i don't know stats for here, but i'd be surprised if gas was anywhere near as wasteful as electricity for cooking. and it's cheaper. and it's far less polluting. however, i realise not every continent has natural gas anyway.

it's not clear those are problems from cold water though - that's a leap i wouldn't be making.
If there is a

well, i somehow doubt that the powder i use is available there, but just in case, in australia it is marketed as "aware" or "planet ark". :-)

there is sun in scotland? who knew? <g>

well, not really. i think we'd agree that plain old-fashioned thrift, and realising we are not entitled to have everything that whistles and squeaks, is the way forward. i do detest entitlement in people. i think it's just morally wrong. waste is morally wrong. (etc). kylie
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0tterbot wrote:

I prefer gas and at one time I would estimate that the majority used it but now a lot, including me, sway to a gas hob with an electric oven.

I can research it and see if there is similar.

It can be very harsh but I had a mail today saying the strawberries were in flower so it can't be too bad for this time of the year. The sea is always very cold compared to where I am. Luckily I have the Gulf stream to paddle in.
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0tterbot wrote:

Storing damp cotton makes me cringe. It's hydrophilic and won't get completely dry when the RH is above 65%. It's either the dryer or the iron.

What temperature do you call cold? Here, tap water can be 10C in winter and 30C in summer.

Around here many people use gas for heating, but I don't know anyone who uses it for cooking. Electricity produces less heat in the kitchen. It boils water faster and the burner temperature can be controlled better.
This Australian pamphlet says the cooking performance is about the same. The cost to run a gas burner is more than the cost to run a small electric burner and less than to run a large one on high. http://www.sedo.energy.wa.gov.au/uploads/cooking_52.pdf

Planet Ark is intended for hot, warm, or cold water.

Fahrenheit temperatures.
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The labels only state the MAXIMUM temperature a garment can take, they are not a recommendation for the actual washing temperature. After all, you're really targeting the dirt and not the garment. Most modern detergents use enzymes and tensides which dissolve in cold water, so you should get good results even with a cold wash. Of course you might be able to get better results with higher temperatures, but at the expense of using a lot more energy and putting greater strain on the fabric.
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it uses less energy. It seems we have the same system as you, Kylie. Karen, USA
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You are correct. Here in the US, clothes washers do not pre-heat the water. Perhaps there are high-tech or expensive machines that do, but not the average machine for home use.
Dishwashers usually have a setting to heat the water, though. So we're not totally behind the times, lol.
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