Sanitizing kitchen

[Rod Speed]

[Peter Ammon]

[...]

Interesting. I'm not a doctor, so it's quite possible I'm wrong. Which example did you have in mind?

-Peter

[The Real Bev]

[Rod Speed]

Peter Ammon wrote

Already told you, you just deleted it from the quoting.

Enjoying your juvenile games ?

[Tom Quackenbush]

Hey, there's two of us! I'm not a doctor, either, and I'd also like to know which germs have developed a resitance to bleach.

R, Tom Q.

[Tom Quackenbush]

[Spod Reed]

"Bleach and phenolics have been used since the 1800s, and quaternary ammonium compounds since at least 1935. The many decades and high volumes of use have provided ample opportunity for bacteria to adapt genetically; however, disinfectant failure due to genetic adaptation has not been reported. In contrast, the evolution of antibiotic-resistant bacteria rendered penicillin therapeutically useless within a decade of its introduction. In addition, germicides have been shown to be equally effective against antibiotic-resistant bacterial strains (e.g., MRSA, VRE, PRSP) and strains exhibiting renewed virulence (e.g., E. coli 0157). Biocides are crucial to reducing the reservoir of such pathogens in our surroundings."

"By definition, antibiotics are substances produced by one organism that inhibit the growth of another organism. They have specific cellular targets, e.g., a particular site on an enzyme, into which they fit like a key into a lock to perform their function. Just as minor changes in a lock make a key useless, a single mutation in an organism can make it resistant to an antibiotic. Penicillin is a good example. Widespread use began circa 1945, and resistance was detected within a decade. Conversely, many antiseptics and disinfectants have been used for over 100 years without loss of effectiveness."

As usual, Rod Speed is talking out of his germ infected ass and provides no proof for his claim. He's a confused, old welfare bum who hasn't a clue, as always.

[Chloe]

[Rod Speed]

Spod Reed wrote

Lie. Before antibiotics showed up, those infected with the worst bugs were just left to die. That is why parents of that era were so obsessed about disinfecting, those consequences.

The worst of those bugs around around anymore, they were wiped out by antibiotics, to be replaced by others due to antibiotic resistance half a century or so later.

If it was as simple as that stupid woman claims in her article, we wouldnt see hospitals as the worst places for bad bugs today, because they could just continue to use bleach etc and wipe out those bugs that have developed antibiotic resistance in hospitals. Doesnt happen, because she is just plain wrong.

And this bit is flagrantly dishonest

Unlike antibiotics, current scientific evidence does not demonstrate a link between the use of antimicrobial-biocidal products and the emergence of biocide or antibiotic resistance.2,3

Turns out that those two references are to 2. Anderson RL, Carr JH, Bond WW, Favero MS. Susceptibility

of Vancomycin-Resistant Enterococci to Environmental Disinfectants.

Infection Control and Hospital Epidemiology. 1997; 18: 195-199.

1. Rutala WA, Stiegel MM, Sarubbi FA, Weber DJ. Susceptibility

of Antibiotic-Susceptible and Antibiotic-Resistant Hospital Bacteria

to Disinfectants. Infection Control and Hospital Epidemiology. 1997; 18:

417-421.

Those two are clearly NOT discussing resistance to the use of

bleach etc at all.

Pity they dont eliminate them. Funny that.

Lie. Doesnt explain why the use of bleach in hospitals hasnt stopped those antibiotic resistant organisms in their tracks.

[Spod Reed]

It does on the surface it's being applied to.

Tell us how using bleach on a kitchen counter will "breed better bugs".

Explain to us how a germ will develop resistance to being physically destroyed.

We know how germs develope anti-biological resistance, so explain the other for us.

[Rod Speed]

Spod Reed wrote

Lie, it isnt even possible to apply it to all surfaces effectively.

The same way that anything that doesnt kill 100% does, cretin.

The same way that anything that doesnt kill 100% does, cretin.

The same way that anything that doesnt kill 100% does, cretin.

And just how many of you are there between those ears, wanker ?

[Spod Reed]

Still waiting for an answer instead of your moronic babbling. Explain how that would work with "physical action"? While you may physically miss a germ with the bleach, it won't be any stronger so explain how it will grow better.

If you haven't got a real answer than shut the f*ck up.

Note that it's probabaly about 2 or 3:30 AM where Rod lives and yet he's still at the computer. When you never had a job, you can post

24/7. See how Rod is the top poster for September and is the all time top poster here. Like I said, 24/7, no job, no life.

[Rod Speed]

Spod Reed wrote

Lying, as always.

Already did, repeatedly.

ANYTHING THAT DOESNT KILL 100% WILL BREED RESISTANCE.

That is just as true with a bullet to the head, as I already said.

That aint the only possibility. The other obvious possibility is that some of the germs dont get hit with a strong enough bleach solution to kill them, cretin.

Pathetic, really.

Already have, repeatedly.

Go and f*ck yourself.

And you STILL havent managed to explain why, if bleach will kill all germs, WE STILL SEE ANTIBIOTIC RESISTANT GERMS CAUSING MASSIVE PROBLEMS IN HOSPITALS TODAY.

And why we saw people left to die when they got infected in the days before antibiotics showed up.

Couldnt bullshit its way out of a wet paperbag even if its pathetic excuse for a 'life' depended on it.

[Victor Smith]

Because the humans harboring the germs aren't treated with bleach, dingbat. You and that beetle fellow are the first I've seen that can't differentiate between bleach and antibiotics, or between the germ breeding potential of live organisms versus the germ-carrying quality of dead utensils. Here's some clues for you:

1. Don't treat an germ-infected person with bleach. Won't work.
2. Don't treat a germ-infected cutting board with anti-biotics. The needle will break off, or the board will refuse to swallow the pill.
3. Quit making excuses for not washing your hands after wiping your asses, which in your feeble minds will just make shit germs stronger and stronger until they take over the world. Sane people tend to look askance at such nonsense.
4. Keep you tin-foil hats shiny. Repels germs.

--Vic

[Logan Shaw]

And that answers the objection that if disinfectants could kill germs very effectively why hospitals still have nasty microbes running around. The answer is that hospitals still hvae nasty microbes running around for two reasons: one, they are full of germ factories (also known as "patients"); two, it is not possible to evacuate all the air from the hospital and then submerge the entire hospital in bleach or some other disinfectant. There are going to be spots which are missed.

- Logan

[Rod Speed]

Logan Shaw wrote

Nope, what is possible in hospitals is completely different to kitchens.

That problem was solved more than a century ago with isolation wards etc.

The worst of them arent airborne.

How odd that that works with surgerys and surgical instruments.

Perfectly possible to santize the wards so patients that dont arrive with a bad bug dont get infected in the hospital.

And that is in fact done in the research operations that do research on the worst of the bad bugs.

The problem is that when those extreme measures arent used, you dont get 100% kills with bleach, so you do breed bad bugs.

Its stupid to be doing that in a kitchen where normal cleanliness is perfectly adequate.

[Choreboy]

[The Real Bev]

And let's not forget recent studies that show infrequent handwashing by "busy" doctors and really-busy nurses.

[Spod Reed]

Give some examples, otherwise you're just talking out of your germ ridden ass.

[Sue Larkin]