Why Buildings Design Firms FAIL to Optimize Their Design?!

Hi everyone,
It is not clear why buildings design firms don't optimize their design, especially when it comes to high-rise buildings?! Isn't 10% or more saving in cost appealing enough to do so? Or the problem is something else?
I tried to do online search on such firms that use optimization to minimize weight or cost but came-up empty-handed! Of course, only academic papers are plenty on that subject but non of them worth even the reading!
Anyone out there came to same conclusion?
Regards, John
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wrote:

10% less concrete used for construction, 10% or more less profit for the company.
A.L.
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A.L. wrote:

Hence my previous Steady State Economics thread (alt.architecture), where you may find cod.
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I am exclusively referring here to the use of "MATHEMATICAL OPTIMIZATION" when a high-rise building is designed. Any structural engineering or building design company is doing so? I am NOT referring here to generic optimization at all.
Usually, at least in academic papers, mathematical optimization is used to minimize weight while satisfying all design constraints imposed by codes and other considerations.
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What, has more numbers? Fewer numbers? I tell my students that they can find the second reaction by doing another moment equation if they want, but it's easier (optimal) to do it with sum of the forces vertical because there's no multiplying (less (optimal) mathematics).
Mathematical optimizatio... wait, let me put that in the quotes it deserves...
"Mathematical optimization" of ... what? Of what?! Oh, back to the first post. Right there, it says "design."

I don't believe you because you didn't say so at first and I'm tired of letting people come up with interesting new stories after the fact.
What on earth do you mean "generic optimization"? I'm hoping English is not your first language, then we could cut you some slack and try to figure out what you are trying to mean.
If you mean ONLY mathematical optimization [sic] and not generic optimization [sic] what on earth are you doing asking the question about design firms? There's more to design than just settling the one set of criteria perfectly. You might as well be asking "Why don't architects minimize travel distances in buildings? I mean 'travel distance between the tv room and the bathroom.'"
If you don't want answers that include necessary parts of the answer then you don't want the answer.

Because you fail to understand the question. Because you don't know what building design entails and you don't know what optimized design is.

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Isn't design also a multiple criteria problem so you would need to optimize against competing criteria

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I am exclusively referring here to the use of "MATHEMATICAL OPTIMIZATION" when a high-rise building is designed. Any structural engineering or building design company is doing so? I am NOT referring here to generic optimization at all.
Usually, at least in academic papers, mathematical optimization is used to minimize weight while satisfying all design constraints imposed by codes and other considerations.
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No. But then, I didn't even start with the same assumptions so there's no surprise there.
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Mike wrote:

So are you Mike or John? Looks like you need optimization-- which some in this thread seem to be attempting. ;)
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Except for *3* instances every building I ever designed was optimally optimized to the clients specifications. **They too were optimally optimized but the clients were incapable of framing their specifications optimally.
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

LOL... I just noticed that Pat asked the same are you Mike or John question earlier in the thread.
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<lookin around> Are you, and he, talkin to me?
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Pat> wrote:

<chortle>
he sed 9r33n phad.......
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Pat> wrote: The building was designed with 6" walls. That created a

I hope he left your office with thousands of your bootprints all over his ass.
No, it wasn't a huge problem for him. It was an opportunity for him to whine. Unless you are building a skyscraper or using extreme design procedures there is no significant difference between 6 & 8 inch walls. Time to start asking some associates for recomendations on engineers. Never hurts to shop around alittle just to see what the market is offering, especially in these times when nothing is a given.
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Well, after they discovered how to build over 20 stories, they lost interest with anything, with what you might real-world issues, Which is also mostly why the people in cutting-edge engineering work on optcal computers, mircoprocessors, parallel processing, HDTV, all-digital fiber optics, broadband and cellular comms, 3D holographics, GPS, On-Line Banking, On-Line Shopping, On-Line Publishing, Light Sticks, Mini Harddisks, USB, Self-Replicating Machines, Digiital-Terrain- Mapping, Cruise Missiles, and Autonomous Vehicles, rather than anything with high-rise building codes.

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On 2009-04-05 00:45:17 -0300, " snipped-for-privacy@netscape.net"

It also depends upon where the actual cost are. There was once an article (in some now forgotten magazine) which described how some builder sweated the logistics of materials on their building site. The result was that the carpenders worked 6 out of 8 hours rather 2 out of 8 hours because they had the required materials readily available. That sounds like a 200% productivity improvement on a major cost component. I think you are asking about a 10% improvement of a moderate cost component. This included things like making sure the building's elevators worked even as the building was under consruction. As the building grew the elevators followed close behind.

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