True Quality Revival And Ice-Cream [OT]

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Pat wrote:
>> "Warm Worm"> wrote >> >>> It does so in part because my derision for them stems from a mainly >>> urban context. >> >> Thats what I suspected from the very beginning. >> The word is *empathy*, trying to *understand* life from another's >> perspective. >> If I asked you to get rid of your rollerblades or your notebook you >> would think I lost my mind.
If it meant something to you, I'd considered it.
>> But you have no compunction about expecting others to get up off >> their rides, and it never occurs to you that peoples lives depend on >> their rides.
Of course it occurs to me. And come up with a good case against blades and books and see what I do. You're also welcomed to dislike them-- hopefully for sane, rational reasons. ;)
>> Ya know, now, when I buy laundry soap I get it in the big cardboard >> box because I don't want to pay good money to have someone take the >> empty plastic container, we used to get, away. >> Now I just burn the box along with other burnable trash. >> I wish we could purchase products *without* all the packaging but we >> don't have that choice, so we make decisions that try to lessen our >> footprint and extend our convenience. >> (why can't I, for example, take my used empty plastic laundry >> container back into the store and fill it up and pay only for the >> contents rather than be forced to purchase a new container everytime? >> I mean, its not like the plastic, with its million-year lifespan, is >> gonna wear out or anything.) >> Find me a more convenient way to live my life in the absence of a >> combustion engine powered machine and I'll be glad to listen. >> I speak only for myself. > > I think you've hit the nail of the head. The reduce/recycle movement > will take off when it makes economic sense.
As opposed to _actual_ sense?
> The market will drive it. For example, remember the boxes your > toothpaste used to come in. > They're gone. No more. That's because Walmart (that unAmerican org) > ordered it's suppliers to get rid of it. You didn't want it and they > didn't want to pay to have to make it or to truck it. It was an > economic reason, not an environmental one.
Should doing something for the right reason prevail though?
...I again thought about a particular brand of ice-cream-- Breyers-- that apparently reduced the costs of production (changed the recipe and perhaps manufacturing method), but kept the price essentially the same. They also did a number of "marketing tricks", such as redesigning the package, and changing the wording ("double-churned") in the ostensible interest of attempting to fool the customer... Found this:
http://www.breyerssucks.com
"Unilever (the multi-national corporation that owns the 'Breyers', Good Humor, and Ben & Jerry's brand names) recently started adding tara gum (made from the seeds of the tara tree) [among other things] to the 'All Natural' varieties of Breyers ice cream." -- Wikipedia.org
http://adailyscoop.com/2006/09/11/breyers-natural-ice-cream-and-tara-gum-unilevers-response
If all things produced at a cheaper and cheaper cost (lower quality too?) is _not_ passed down to the consumer in the form of cheaper products or greater savings-- and even if it is-- then what happens when the consumer asks for the older(-style) or better thing?
Is it more expensive for the customer, or less profitable for the company? Should quality-of-life decide, or economic forces that often seem to have little to do with the latter.
So what does this have to do with architecture or urban-planning? Well, it has to do in part with the revival of _true_ quality, value and price/cost, (ie., heritage architecture/design) and of what I feel has been gradually eroded over time and that has less and less to do with anything other than nothing-- even money.
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Give it up. People on this forum will rush to tell you "it's obviously what people want" (since they still buy it). Never mind that most people seldom if ever experience quality in much of anything to know the difference.
-Amy
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Amy Blankenship wrote:

Ya I know... a little soap-boxy of me... It's just that I had a kind of thought-process yesterday that went along the lines of about wanting old stuff, or heritage, or replications/repro's-- that kind of thing-- and how the gist of the responses are usually that it's too, or very, expensive or no longer feasible or possible... and then wondering why-- I mean, if we're so technologically advanced-- and how could they then do it in the old days, and what happened since then, and so on...

A culture, double-churned, airy, fluffy, syrupy, chemical tracts and tracts of souless emptiness... The profit-motive may eat itself for breakfast, but drag the rest of us down with it. 'The costs of doing business.'
I've said that people are a necessary evil in the pursuit of profit... I sense a paradox, but I can't put my finger on it.
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That's the rub, though, isn't it? It's both a cause and an effect.
There was a similar debate in the pre-modernist period about industrial technology and craft, which led to the 'Arts and Crafts Movement' (my personal favorite), that you are retracing in a way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arts_and_Crafts_movement
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http://adailyscoop.com/2006/09/11/breyers-natural-ice-cream-and-tara-gum-unilevers-response So, stop buying Breyers. We did...a long time ago. Someone else will fill your niche if there is one...
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:

We filled our own... homemade. Costs about $8.00 / gallon made that way.
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:

One thing Breyers did in the repackaging was to change the 16 oz container to a 15 oz container at a higher price point.

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Don wrote:

What's actually in your ice creams? Heavenly Hash and Tin Roof sounds all hunky-chunky-dory, until you look at the ingredients in some brandz.
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Don wrote:

Well, there's food, junk food, and then there's "Frankenfood".
To be living with/within a system that gets sufficiently out of whack (and I'm "beginning" to see it all around me) is like using anything that's already in a serious state of disrepair. It's just plain dangerous and wreckless. Try that with your car, power tools or guns and see how far you go, or how long you last. Ideally, you don't wait until something fixes itself. You recognize problems if there are any and then you fix them, replace them, or they potentially kill or replace you (maybe not literally, just gradually, spiritually) and others you might love.

"They're making Soilent Green out of people!"
(getting closer)
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Warm Worm wrote:

Breyer's Lactose Free Natural Vanilla: Milk, sugar, cream, natural vanilla flavor, carob bean gum, lactase enzyme. Nutrition Information: (Half cup, 65g) Calories 130, calories from fat 60, total fat 7g, saturated fat 4.5g, cholesterol 20mg, sodium 35mg, total carbohydrate 14g, dietary fiber...
Check out this letter:
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Contact: Breanna Wagner GolinHarris 312-729-4326 snipped-for-privacy@golinharris.com Shelley Ward GolinHarris 312-729-4292 snipped-for-privacy@golinharris.com
Breyers All Natural Ice Cream Goes Green! New Line of Organic Ice Cream to Hit Supermarkets Nationwide
Green Bay, WI (Aug. 28, 2006) This September, the company with a heritage for making ice cream with all-natural ingredients is going organic with the introduction of Breyers All Natural Organic Ice Cream.
The new line of Breyers USDA-certified organic ice cream has been developed in response to consumers growing interest in organic foods. According to the Organic Trade Association, organic foods are becoming an increasingly popular trend in the U.S., with organic food sales nearly tripling since 1997, growing between 17 and 21 percent each year. In the same period the organic ice cream segment has grown nearly 55 percent.
We know people want natural and organic food options in more than just the produce section of the grocery store, says Dan Hammer, vice president of marketing for Unilever Ice Cream. The introduction of Breyers Organic Ice Cream demonstrates our continued commitment to offer our customers the widest variety of options to fit their ever-changing needs and lifestyles. Breyers Organic Ice Cream will be offered in Vanilla Bean, Chocolate, Coffee and Vanilla Fudge Swirl flavors. The products will be available nationwide beginning this September and can be found in either the freezer section or organic freezer section at supermarkets. A one-quart container sells for a suggested retail price of $4.99-$5.99.
Another option for people with specific health interests is Breyers Lactose Free Vanilla ice cream, which is also available in supermarkets nationwide. Breyers created the Lactose Free Vanilla ice cream as a product offering for the 30 to 50 million consumers nationwide who are lactose intolerant2 and it has become one of Breyers most complimented product in the line. Breyers Lactose Free Vanilla ice cream sells for the suggested retail price of $5.29 for a 56 oz container.
About Unilever Ice Cream Unilever North American Ice Cream, headquartered in Green Bay, Wis., is the largest manufacturer and marketer of branded packaged ice cream and frozen novelties in the United States, where the company operates nine manufacturing facilities and employs approximately 3,400 people. Its wellknown brands include Breyers Ice Cream, Ben & Jerrys, Popsicle, Good Humor, and Klondike. 1. Organic Trade Association: http://www.ota.com/organic/mt/food.html 2. National Institute of Diabetes, and Digestive and Kidney Diseases: http://www.niddk.nih.gov / ###
__________________________________________________________________________________

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++ wrote:

Well thanks I guess... I dislike the carob bean gum in there, and there're eggs missing-- I prefer eggs-- so it's assumed that the gum replaces those... It might be that those who are lactose-intolerant may also have trouble with eggs too...

Haagen Dazs makes a green tea ice cream (at least for the Shanghai market) that I quite like and that I had for the first and only time in China's Shanghai airport, of all places. I still haven't noticed it in Canada, although Vancouver does have 'Mondo Gelato' that serves a very close, and maybe even better, approximation. Of course I'm in Ottawa.

Green Bay, ay? More green...
I wonder if it won't become an excuse to charge an arm-and-a-leg for something "new" that, presumably, was once norm...
When you whittle away the intrinsic value of something, and charge the same price, or more for it, or a touch less that still does not reflect the whittles, and/or make it somehow look like better quality, how might that practice affect the cost/price of other things that still have high intrinsic values (and when the competition has little choice if everyone's shopping "Low-Mart")?
Also, how does it affect the capacity to create/offer intrinsic value in general as well as our perceptions or expectations of quality, etc.?
Now that I'm on this line of thought, what do you think of customer-cards that give you discounts, in exchange for knowing your name, where you live, maybe your sex or age, and of course exactly what you purchase? How do you feel about the fact that, if you refuse, you're essentially forced to pay more (while others, who succumb, are paying less), or to shop further away from where you live (and therefore still pay more)?

Gee thanks... Take it away, and then look good by giving it back?

$$$$
<sound of an old-style cash register being punched and opened>
Ah, those were the days... ;)

You get to buy ice cream from the same company that sells cleaning agents...
<hypothetical tv commercial> "Feel clean all over, and now, even inside! With our new organic ice cream!" </htc>
[snipped free advertising for Unilever]
"Unilever's status as a large multinational has attracted a variety of criticisms from political activists. For example, it has been criticised for causing environmental pollution by Greenpeace, for testing products on animals by PETA, and for making use of child labour, among others." --Wikipedia.org
Looks like Unilever's helping to set an example of how we, too, can all contribute to that special community spirit.
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Be grateful to them. Even five years ago, a lot of this stuff flat wasn't available. Now you can get it if you are willing to pay for it.
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No reason to assume that. Lactose is in milk (hence the "lact-" part of the name, as in "lactation"). HTH!

The thing about getting stuff at X-Mart is that it's often the same stuff you pay more for in other stores. A half-gal of Low-Sodium V-8 is the same there as it is anywhere else, except it's between $1 and $2 less at WalMart.
It's not the fault of the X-Marts that major companies continually put less food into containers, use lower-quality components in foodstuffs, and pack foods prepared overseas (c.f. recent discover of melamine in both pet foods and human foods).
Look at teh lowly can of green beans, still a staple in many homes. I can remember when a can of green beans was a FULL can of green beans. Now, it's half, or 2/3 if you are really lucky, of green beans, and the rest is just salt water.
Everyone crabs about gasoline prices, and pays Zero attention to what is happening with everything else.
OTOH, the price of things such as fluorescent light bulbs has come down due to the mass-purchasing power of the X-Marts. Just imagine what might happen if WalMart started selling, say, portable/interchangeable solar panels!! IMO, it'd be great if there were portable units into which a person could plug standard devices. PArt of the annoyance of solar is not only the cost of the panels, but the wiring/non-pluggability/non- portability.
Just a thought...
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I wouldn't be so sure of that. Wal-Mart in paricular consistently pressures suppliers to cut prices by whatever means necessary. Additionally, the products in Wal-Mart are not always exactly the same as similar models of the same brand (for instance, Levi's makes jeans for Wal-Mart that are not up to the same quality standards of the jeans they sell elsewhere).

I think there are.
-Amy
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Wranglers seem to be the same (I don't go for Levi's because they tend to be cut too "skinny", so I can't say anything about those).
I personally haven't found brand names that seem to differ, when I buy brand names that is...

Maybe I just haven't gotten my search terms correct, then...have to re- try.
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I learned to make ricotta because I looked at the label of the stuff in the store. It's fairly easy, and takes less time than a trip to town.
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Amy Blankenship wrote:

Sounds like fun . Post directions here.

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http://www.101cookbooks.com/archives/000282.html
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Amy Blankenship wrote:

Thanks a lot,
Although I have tried making cheese with buttermilk, I never thought of pairing one part buttermilk with four parts regular milk. Going to try it, but reading the blog made me want to try and find a source for the sheep's or goat's whey and uncover the old methods

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