Scope of work

I'm the wheelchair-friendly bathroom remodel guy. Here's the initial "scope of work" document I received from Tub Cove. This company is the only contender because the others were too expensive too much rot. I don't think they wanted my business and Tub Cove has specialized exclusively in this work for at least twenty years.
http://www.geocities.com/haroldshamster/Scope_of_Work.xls
I've been on project teams, coordinating work, but I have not been at the front end "SOW" part before. What do you think ? I need a more specific document and will ask for it.
On other concern I have is the contract. At a minimum, I need to make sure he can restore the bathroom if a problem (I don't know how to put it) crops up that makes the original plan unworkable. Suppose the wall on the side of the tub gives way when he removes the tub? That will be his obligation to fix, but I need to make sure I can make that stick. I also want a "not to exceed" amount in the contract.
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IMO, you are a PITA and I'd not want to work for you. It is really impossible to give a "will not exceed" number when there is known rot and some is hidden. He may give an astronomical number to cover his ass and maybe scare you away. Same thing with the restoration. That can be pricey too and he has to be paid for the work he does. You have concerns about one wall collapsing. If that is true, he'll have to add in the price of replacement to cover his potential liability for you rotting house.
When I had my own business, I'd walk away from some jobs. This would fall into that category. Plenty of other good jobs out there.
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Mr. Pawlowski says about hidden problems is true. One cannot place a cost on work one cannot see.
Your best protection is to ask recent clients about their experience. T
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If you are both legally responsible (aged 21+ and solvent) you can agree on whatever satisfies both parties, and if not you can bargain until you reach agreement. This is what "negotiate" means and the contract is merely the agreed record of what both parties agreed. If you want more than the other party will agree to, he will not take on your job. You cannot coerce him to agree to everything you want and he cannot force you to sign a contract that does not satisfy you.
--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
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Info,
Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt. I think the fact that Tub Cove has been doing this kind of work for so long is your best guarantee of success. You are not a pain in the ass just a concerned buyer of these services. You don't want to make the process more difficult or cumbersome than it has to be. Check references and the Better Business Bureau for anything negative. Read the contract carefully to see if your concerns are adequately adressed. Good luck and I hope things turn out well for you.
KC
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wrote:

Info,
Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt. I think the fact that Tub Cove has been doing this kind of work for so long is your best guarantee of success. You are not a pain in the ass just a concerned buyer of these services. You don't want to make the process more difficult or cumbersome than it has to be. Check references and the Better Business Bureau for anything negative. Read the contract carefully to see if your concerns are adequately adressed. Good luck and I hope things turn out well for you.
KC -------
Thanks. I am a pain in the ass. Ask my wife. I just don't understand where those posters got their belligerence. I did nothing but ask a question. But, just ask my wife.
"Too much rot" was horrible shorthand on my part. See me next post. For what it's worth I had already checked the state's contractor database and found no complaints. Tub Cove has the job for $12k.
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From your attitude. You want a "not to exceed" price, yet you know you have hidden damages. Unless you pay to have it torn up and inspected, no one can truly give you what you want. You want assurance that the work can be put back if the project is not going to work. That too is a difficult thing to price or to assure and at each step it gets more difficult and expensive to do that.
I've run into people like you and they are not worth the aggravation. Some people will just never be happy now matter how good the work or how low the price is. What you need is a reputable contractor and trust both ways.
I've not changed my mind. I'd not take the job. I don't care if you think me belligerent, but I won't have to see you in court either.
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wrote:

Doing a work write up is sort of an art in it involves some assumptions. You are either assuming (a) that there is no concealed rot or (b) that there is rot. If there is rot, then (a) you are either unaware of it or (b) you are hoping to hide it from the contractor. You want a fixed price. So, the contractor can either (a) assume there's rot and charge you a fortune (if there isn't rot, then they make out like a bandit) or (b) they can assume there isn't rot and lose money. Which do you want?
So obviously, the best scenario is for the contractor to assume there is no rot and charge accordingly while you assume there IS rot and have enough money to cover that. Then, if there's no rot you are charged a fair price. If there is rot, then they give you a change order and again you are charged fairly.
The reason that people are viewing you as a PITA is because you want the contractor (who didn't develop the scope of work) to guarantee that there isn't any rot and price accordingly. So for the contractor, it's best just to walk away because it's the start of a bad relationship.
BTW, I looked at the scope of work. You really can't work off of it but that's a completely different problem.
-------
1) The scope of work is too vague for me so I came here for opinions. Why do you think it's insufficient or whatever? The contractor, Tub Cove, did write the scope of work and emailed it to me. Why do you say that the contractor didn't write it? I'm not criticizing you. I don't know who other than the contractor would have written it. Tub Cove is the one that's doing the work. That's why I'm calling Tub Cove the contractor.
Can you elaborate about your the scope of work comment?
2) Please see my response to Nate Nigel. I blew it by my horribly-written phrase "too much rot" way early in this thread. Nobody knew that when they started posting, so all the observations prior to my post to Nate about the contractors' rights are certainly valid. I understand that. There might be rot behind the walls. I don't expect perfection. I'm just looking for ways to contain the possible financial damage. My "too much rot" was atrociously worded. I have no excuse for it.
I have only one question about the PITA stuff. Those responses are venomous personal attacks. I don't understand the mindset that prompts them. A simple, "I don't agree because..." would have been sufficient. I have many flaws, but I don't attack people whose opinions I don't share. Where the heck does this venom come from? That's the last I'll say about the PITA stuff.
Thanks
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You're aware that you'll have to transfer into that shower because there's a 2-1/2" threshold, correct? Most people in wheelchairs prefer roll-in showers. Also, the way that SOW is written, you'll be eating any additional work if there is any extra work involved once the tub is removed. You can't expect the person doing the estimating to have xray vision. Good luck with your project.
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snipped-for-privacy@verizon.net wrote:

What I see in there is permits and inspections are excluded from the bid price, and also I see nothing in there about structural repair/reconstruction, so if any is required that would be a change order. I would ask what their price for, say, a new subfloor would be if required, just in case. In pretty much any construction environment change orders are higher margin than bid work, and that's not the company trying to screw you that's just the way it is, so you might as well get an idea of cost in a "worst case" scenario.
Did the "other guys" include an estimate of rot repair in their bids? It may turn out that that might be a cheaper overall price. worth asking.
good luck
nate
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wrote:

1) I want a 2 1/2 lip to help keep the water in. I'm having them build a inexpensive, sturdy and movable ramp that will help the pushing me over the lip easier. As I understand it, a roll-in shower would require a great deal more work on the tub floor. I'm in a condo and the floor is "common space." Digging into that will be enormously expensive and the building management company is not very cooperative. It took them 6 weeks to change a light bulb in a stairwell. God knows what hoops I'd have to jump through to invade common space.
2) I know about the inspections and permits. We're getting them done on the side with Tub Cove. The SOW was just the preliminary document and written awhile back.
3) They're going to remove the tile floor and replace it with one that slopes up a little toward the lip.
4) I worded "too expensive, too much rot." so horribly. The rot is not what might be behind the wall. The rot is the bull that I've received from others I've asked to bid. One guy refused to give me a non-binding guesstimate because "I don't know what's under the floor." He meant its condition. Wouldn't even hazard a non-binding guess? That's "rot." Another said "$25k. There's no money in bathrooms. I can't get more than one person in there at a time." I accept that and that he's more than welcome to charge anything he wants. He had no intention of negotiating at all. Another guy said $45. $45k for a 56 square foot bathroom remodel? The drawing that he sent was absurdly different from what my wife and I told him to his face we wanted. Yikes! If they didn't want the job, all they had to do was say "No." A fourth fellow tried to fleece me out of an alleged $1k retainer to which I never agreed at all. A fifth fellow said that my accountant was wrong and that the entire cost would be tax deductible. He's a contractor. He was full of rot. My account is a former IRS agent.
I need to ask more about change orders. Thanks for the feedback.
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Info wrote:

Well, if you didn't mean "rot" to mean "water damage" don't pester them too much about the COs. Time is money, they probably want to just get in and out and get paid. An offhand question can't hurt though.
nate
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wrote:

How about a novel idea? You write an elaborate SOW, declare any exceptions, stop orders, dates, times, etc....... Write it all down and then ask out for bids.
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Oren wrote:

This is not bad advice, in the grand scheme of things. Bid/contract work is not like shopping in a store.
nate
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wrote:

Sharpest Pencil wins, I say
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Sharpest pencil does not always = good work though.
Last roofing contract I let was $25,000 more than the lowest bid, but I got away cheaper when all is said and done. Why? He was aware of what really had to be done, up front, not after the job was started, and had a capable crew..
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the lowest price ANYTHING is rarely a good deal.
cheaper tend to be well CHEAP:(
with the lowest price components etc.
just my 2 cents, which you will like its FREE:)
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Not sure what you really mean here. If the wall of your place falls apart (note language "the wall gives way" not "he breaks the wall") what do you mean it is his "obligation" to fix it? Do you mean he has to pay for your bad property? Within the scope of the contract that was not about fixing your bad property? What if the porch falls off when he's walking to the job site, is it his obligation to fix that as well? What if your wall gives way and injures his crew? Or do you just mean that the final deliverable must be something that actually looks done and you're willing to pay for it as circumstances arise?
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Not sure what you really mean here. If the wall of your place falls apart (note language "the wall gives way" not "he breaks the wall") what do you mean it is his "obligation" to fix it? Do you mean he has to pay for your bad property? Within the scope of the contract that was not about fixing your bad property? What if the porch falls off when he's walking to the job site, is it his obligation to fix that as well? What if your wall gives way and injures his crew? Or do you just mean that the final deliverable must be something that actually looks done and you're willing to pay for it as circumstances arise?
-----
My apologies, again, for the very poorly worded question. Thank you all.
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