Re: The value of shopping local

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Warm Worm wrote:

High Altitude at High Speed...
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3D Peruna wrote:

How about casually sprinkled as a kind of pixie femtonuke-bomb-dust over the military compounds?
"...It has been suggested that the materials might be constructed to allow all of the stored energy to be released very quickly in a 'burst'. The density of gammas produced in this reaction would be high enough that it might allow them to be used to compress the fusion fuel of a fusion bomb. If this turns out to be the case, it might allow a fusion bomb to be constructed with no fissile material inside (eg. a pure fusion weapon), and it is the control of the fissile material and the means for making it that underlies most attempts to stop nuclear proliferation. In fact, the possible energy release of the gammas alone would make IGE a potential high power 'explosive' on its own, or a potential radiological weapon. Basic research remains in early stages but that has not deterred the worrying about these possibilities." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafnium_bomb
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Hmmm, I never thought of it quite that way ;)
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Exactly my point, and a demonstration of the limits of "hedgehog" thinking. Remember Colin Rowe?
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Which is why education is important.
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Kris Krieger wrote:

Depends on what you mean by "education". If you mean teaching children about rights and responsibilities, then yes. If you mean teaching children about something else, say the idea of "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need", then no...
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I've already explained that about 20+ times.

Hel-OOO? How on earth do you get Marxism from *anything* that i wrote?
I have consistently talked about teaching critical thinking skills (and yes, some kids are born with an advantage in htat area, however, as with reading and arithmetic and basic math, many skills can also be taught so as to give them abasic level of competency). i have *never* said anything whatsoever about Marxism. The last time I thought Marxism made sense was when I was 11, and even there, it was mainly a rebellion thing, not a political or philosophical stance. I had to study it to some extent because of my focus on the SOviet Union and subsequent job, and it's untenable.
So don't bring in that old "red herring" nonsense. =>:-p I've been IMO quite clear about what I've meant by "education".
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Kris Krieger wrote:

Not to mention that a so-called "Marxist division" does not necessarily equate with Marxism, unless snidely stated or manipulated as the above. Somebody pulled somebody's red button. It has been considered polite for decades to propose, for example, a Marxist division when it comes to dating. First, no one is denigrated because one of the parties decides to go somewhere less affordable to the other and secondly, the person with a lower salary (your date could be interning at a low salary, for example) has the dignity of paying his/her share. It's basically a statement of situation and takes the status of salary out of the equation. Of course, it presumes that the couple dating knows enough about each others' salaries - ya gotta be good enough friends for that. Teaching teenagers how to calculate the cost of their desires and still include other people is a worthy discussion

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That made my head hurt!
OTOH, I really never did, and still don't, "get' a lot fo that social- status crap. Sure, i'd get more "social status" if I got that 500-series Beemer to park inmy driveway, btu the thing disn't fit my butt so I stuck with my 'crappy old basic Saturn" (got it in 2001, so it's really not that old, and it's basic, no power windows, but not *that* crappy, sinceit does get me from Point A to Point B, and teh A/C/ works).
If I have more $$ than my friend, and choose to enjoy my $$ by taking him somewhere he's never been, or hell, maybe by giving him a coupel hundred bucks, I don't see any sort of "power" or "inequity" or "lack of dignity" in it, it' ssimply that sometimes, I really enjoy seeing a friend have a great time.
SO all of that "Marxist Division" stuff just blows right by me - I don't get it.

???
IMO, it's just a matter of enjoyment. If your enjoyment *harms* someone else, that is wrong. OTOH, is Brittany Speas makes $700K a month, and spends every last penny of it, uh, so what? It doesn't affect me, or most people.
It comes down to whether one is harming someone else, and how. If someone else is simply jealous, or peeved, or even "offended", that isn't harm, and isn't relevant. ((Sure I'm a little envious that I don't have $700K <LOL!> but it ain't harming me...))
As for including others, well, if someone is your friend, or anyone you care about, you like to spend time with them, share expereinces, share things you enjoy. You include each other in your respective lives.
Including anyone else is neitehr necessary, nor autiomatically desireable - even if you're doing volunteer work, there has to be a line between that work, and your degree of personal (and financial) involvement. Without that line, that boundary, you get eaten alive, because there is never any end to people claiming tha tthey "need" your time, yoor emotional investment, your stuff, yoru money, etc. and so on.
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Kris Krieger wrote:

I didn't... but I did get it from some kids I know in the public education system. That's what they're being taught. "Fairness" is more important that knowing how to multiply. Being a good citizen is stressed over being able to read and reason. That's where it came from.
I was agreeing with you conditionally.
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My point exactly. If you're gonna carry nukes, you better know your parabolas.
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You're erroneously equating "skills training" with "education". THey are different things, different types of learning.
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Kris Krieger wrote:

[sic]
I am constantly amazed at how we can provide tax incentives to outsource jobs from the US that we aren't providing for our own educated and literate workforce.
At the last Smithsonian Folklife Festival, there was a table in which the Irish were showing how they provide support services for US companies. They were assuming, in their literature and spiels that these were jobs that Americans would not want to take. They were dismayed to note person after person ask how they could get that job at that salary, asking things like "Do I have to move to Ireland?" or "Can you link me for this job from my house?".

They can be related.

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I think it is the Irish who provided those tax incentives.
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Amy Blankenship wrote:

The Irish were glad to do "thos jobs you Americans don't want to do. And the setup consts were financed by your government. We are grateful." (At least, that's how I remember the conversation )
http://money.cnn.com/2004/03/11/commentary/dobbs/dobbs / http://www.factcheck.org/article225.html http://www.pbs.org/now/politics/outsourcedebate.html http://www.russoft.org/docs/?doc 55 http://www.galtglobalreview.com/infotech/outsource_alts_2.html http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/site/en/com/2006/com2006_0728en01.pdf
etc.
Lot's of sides to the issue. NO tax incentives for creating jobs here at home.

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Well duuuuuh =>:-/ So can dancing and martial arts. So what? THat's not the point.
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Actually, my friend has been trying to hire some US company to do some pharmaceutical-production work, but ended up having to turn to a Eurpean company, because the US companies were run by US-"educated" nitwits who simply could not do the work. ((It's an injectible product, so the mfg quality has to be very rigorously controlled.))
When I talk about poor education, including lack of critical/logical thinking skills, impacting a society, I'm not just blithering - a poor- quality education makes for poor-quality workers. It's pathetic to be *forced* to out-source so as to find people with the appropriate skill- levels...
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Education is not the same thing as the current mess called "the public school system". The current ssytem is a bureaucracy first, and second, and third, and is more of a trianing camp, than an Educational Institution.
I've said time and time again that I am willing to pay for children to be *educated* - I am *not* w8illing to pay for them to be merely warehoused for 8 hours and trained to follow orders.
Merely being a "good littel worker bee" is not condusive to liberty - but being a GLWB is precisely what the "educational" bureaucracy seeks to "teach".
A great many HS Graduates can barely read, can barely do basic arithmetic, and can barely think well enough to drive a car. That is not education. I agree with Pat that Education is a natural right, and that this rightr is being denied students.
I really wish people would stop confusing "education" with "warehousing".
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Don wrote:

Therein lies the problem.
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Kris Krieger wrote:

Natural rights are those that exist outside of another individual. A "right" to be educated exists in the same way that the right to pursue happiness exists. However, there is no obligation to provide for that right.
For example, I have the right to bear arms. But I do not have the right to steal from you to buy my gun (or steal your gun). Education works the same way. As soon as you take from another, by force, the money required to educate another person, you've violated that first person's right to property. Rights also do not require the violation of other rights to exist.
Extending this to public education. If, we volunteer our money to a "public" school, then we have not violated anyones rights. As soon as they attach the rule of force to that (for example, property taxes), our right to property has been violated, no matter that the purpose may be noble, like enabling children to have the right to be educated.
The right to a good education is only being denied to the students in that their parents are not insistent that their children get a good education and do something about it. It is our right to property that is being violated and this is of greater concern than the poor education of students (I think they're related. Don't teach people properly and they won't understand the difference between right, privilege and tough luck. They'll start asserting rights where they don't exist and giving away the ones that do).
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