Re: Air Force 1 Tagging a hoax



Why? The result is the same - the threat of violence is used against people to manipulate/force them to do things - it's no different from people "joking"/making crank calls about putting a bomb in a building.
Whether or not the gun is real, or is a toy that's made specifically (for whatever reason, IMO there not being any) to *look* completely real, the fact is that a crime is committed based upon the threat of harm - people suffer, business suffers if it's a bank or store robbery, plus their clients suffer, and huge amounts of taxpayer money ends up being spent investigating, locating the goods, locating the perpetrator, and so on and so forth. None of that harm disappears simply because the weapon is a nonfunctioning replica that the victims took to be real.
My only concern with stiffer prosecution would be that simple jail terms are just *more* of a financial drain - the felons should be put to work in some way that will benefit the people (and society) they've harmed, not just warehoused. If the rest of us have to pay for their stupidity and lack of concern by having taxes stolen out of our paychecks, then it is not "cruel and unusual punishment", or whatever other drivel some people excrete from their orifices stating that felons should not have to work at something reasonably constructive so as to relieve the added tax burdens they cause.
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"Don"

Good points, and I just had an idea of some intelligent psychotic inventing a real gun that looked like a child's toy gun. I mean, they already make real guns out of plastic don't they? Which begs the question: Can they already make bullets out of plastic or stuff like ceramic, etc.?
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I'd think you could make bullets out of anything that'd fit snugly into the end of a shell casing, and leave enought room for the propellant. The question is whether it will survive the trip down the barrel, and through the air, so as to make it to the target. Another consideration is imapct damage - if the bullet is so sleek and hard that it passes right through the target, without flattening, breaking up, or at the least, tumbling, then it's not very good as a bullet.
I don't recall whether there are plastic or ceramic bullets and, given the current slimate, Im not about to Google it...
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"Kris Krieger"

You're kidding!
Anyway, now that I have you, I got the shipping container files, by the way, but didn't realize that the program only referenced the container image files rather than contained them, so I was left with only dimensions when I deleted them! I found another shipping container in the neighborhood that looks about the same, so I might go out and photograph it at similar angles and then overlay the dimensions.
Rich
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Ooooh, I just realized I made a decent typo - "today's slimate" rather than "climate, heh ;)

Kidding about which...? Not sure, just asking.
If it's the ceramic/plastic bullet idea, I would have to check, it's just something that crept out of the dusty, rusty back-room file cabinet are in my brain.

Dimensions are good. Mainly, the texture is the thing. Most seem to be corrugated. I counted the corrugations off of a TV shot of some containers (I assume you mean, cargo-vessel-type containers), but now Ihave to find the scrap of paper... =:-o
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That you would apparently police yourself like that.

I think I have the dimensions of everything we need to build a relatively good model from, including the corrugations, save for maybe the bottom, which just looks like some regularly-spaced metal "a-beams" under a floor anyway. As you may know, once you have one set of corrugation dimensions, and the dimensions of other areas of the container, you don't really need to know how many corrugations there are in total if they're all the same size and regularly repeating, like tiles.
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It's one of those "can of worms" issues.
Personally, having been brought up with guns, I think it's kind of nuts to give kids a convincingly-realistic model - the reason being that doing so teaches the association of "gun" with "toy".
I do not think guns should be banned; there are the Constitutional reasons, there are certain social reasons, and there are recreational reasons - to me, shooting was very much like how I've heard a few people describe Zen Archery.
I was, however, taught from the time I could get around the house that the guns were NOT toys. THey were dangerous items. Not dangerous in that they 're going to jump out of the cabinet and harm anyone (I know that sounds stupid but I've come across peole who just about seem to beelive something similar), but dangerous in that mishandling can lead to terrible incidents.
My objection to giving kids realistic toy guns is that, as with so many other things, it blurs the line between what is fantasy/play, and what is real.
I think you're looking at this from a purely adult point of view, and not taking psychology, especially child psychology, into account. It (is* true that there are a lot of cases where "modern views" are far too overprotective (such as the nanocephalic nonsense about not wanting to make children fearful by teaching them to be wary of stragers and to not get into cars with strangers). OTOH, it's also true that there are increasing numbers of incidences where toys/games/etc. blur, and nearly erase, the distinction between, as above, fantasy/play, and reality, especially the reality of harming others. Certain games and toys are fine for adults, but children are not little adults.

The whole point is that the "toys" *LOOK* real - no distinction can be made by the victim. Therefore, the *threat* is identical, whether the thing is a toy, or a functioning weapon.
In any event, though, asking whether one would "prefer" one or another threat is meaningless. I don't want to be threatened at all. I know how I've reacted to threats in the past and to be honest, if I "nuked" someone and then found out later that the perceived weapon was actually a toy, I'd go out of my mind. And sorry, but even in a civilian threat situation, people can't just sit around pondering the appearance of a weapon to determine it's level of functionality, as tho' they're watching some cutsey Disney cartoon. A person sees a gun pulled, and that person reacts withing seconds, and typically out of instinct. It's necessary, because a person intent upon shooting others isn't going to just mosey around singing national anthems of the world before doing something.
And if someone is going to wave a gun around in public, or something that looks *exactly* like a functional gun, the plain fact is that he has to be prepared for the consequences. IOW, that people *will* react instantly.
Because of that, Kids with these dumbass "toys" have been shot and killed. That alone should be a good enough for people to not give the things to kids. But people are stupid, and one sad fact about society is that there is always an urge to try to protect people from their own stupidity.
Personally, I think that, when incedents occur because of kids with realistic toy guns, the people who gave the things to the kids should be presecuted. Even if it's the parents. It's a careless, uncaring, neglectful, and IMO criminal act to give a kid something that is *highly* likely, esp. in today's climate, to get the child killed. I'm personally tired of people using stupidity as a synonym for innocence.
OTOH, peopole *do* and *will* give the things to kids, if the things are available to purchase, so pulling them off the market, or at least, off the general market, might at least be a stopgap measure.

IMO it would be acceptable to make the things avaialable on a limited basis to adults who are capable of citing their awareness of the potential consequences. They should *not* be sold at Toys'R'Us or any other store that focuses on children's goods.
As for adults with bad intentions - the problem is that a person intent upon crime will use whatever is at hand. Weapons make it far easier to inflict lethal damage, and do so quickly, that much is unavoidably true. But it'd be nothing more than hollow fantasy to claim that eliminating all weapons would eliminate violence.

Definitely, and that would include people who do things like make weapons easily available to their kids, people who peddle illegal weapons to criminals, and other such enablers.
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To be sure.
In this case, my Dad was very responsible in teaching me not only that guns had to be handled safely, but also, that they require a human agent to function - they don;'t just get up and start doing things on their own, like some gangsta version of "The SOrcerer's Apprentice". The thing that bothers me about a lot fo the "I hate guns" crowd is that they seem to forget that second fact.

There ya go. My grandfather had been a Forest Warden in Czechoslovakia, and when he retired (from whatever it was he did when he got to the US), he moved into what as still rural/forested land in northern New Jersey. He beleived store-bought meat was bad for you because it was too close to being carrion/vulture food, and the only meat he ate was what he could go out and hunt. Deer, woodchuck, squirrel, whatever. I ate some of the best dang goulash ever at his place ;) , cooked over hardwood fires.
My Dad was a championship shooter; had all sorts of awards.
So, I didn't grow up with guns as a response to crime or paranoia, they were just there, in the same way that your big kitchen knives would be there, and your cast-iron skillet. Part of the household.

Very similar here, but the cabinet was in the den, then moved to the basement after it was finished and sealed.

My mother wouldn't allow any of that, but I eventually learned to shoot and continued doing so once I got out of there and on my own. The protection aspect was always there, but I wouldn't have had handguns had i not also enjoyed going to the range for target shooting. ((The challenge was to use rifle targets with handguns and see how far out the targets could go and still be hit with reasonable accuracy.))

Well, the town I grew up in did have violence because that was when race riots started occurring, but it was kind of interresting in that it was the kids themselves who dealt with it, not the proncipal or the school board of any other gov.t entity. The kids figured out for themselves how to coexist in a sort of uneasy peace, and eventually came to a sort of balance where even frinedships eventually started forming.
Gov.t just seemed to increase divisiveness, where it intervened.
But at any rate, the point is, there were bullies, but they were not sucked up to the way bullies seem to be now; three were "in groups", but I don't remember kids suiciding over not being part of them - most just went off and did their own things, formed their own groups. Thre were fights, there was some violence, but all in all, it almost seems civilized in comparison with the stuff I see on the news, and what I hear abut in general, as regards the crap that goes on in the so-called "schools" now.

I've come close in a couple instances of self-defense, but that's as far as it ever went. No matter how upset I ever got, the worst thing I did was beat my mattrass with a tennis racket <LOL!> It irritates me when soem people go on about how horrible gun owners supposedly are, because in all honesty, I don't even like to stoop to being mean to people - forget actually *harming* someone just because I was POed at something.

You're making the increasingly common error of confusing circumstances, with individual and social attitudes towards those circumstances.
Had Lincoln been born ten years ago, even if he himself somehow preserved the character traits that resulted in his becoming the US President, he would have faced, not an indifferent society, but rather, one which, at every turn, would be attempting to brainwash him into being nothing more than a perpetual victim.
It is not circumstances that render one incapable of achievement. It is a combination of innate character, and social influences/pressures which work to enhance some character traits and thwart others.
If i remember correctly, you yourself had posted a listing of stages that the original author proposed as a summary of the rise and fall of civilizations. One of the stages on the "fall" side dealt with feeling entitled to material wealth and psychoemotional coddling.
What, after all, is any civilization, but its people, and the society they create?
There have always been working mothers who didn't or couldn't stay at home (a great many in my own town, back when and where I spent my childhood). There have always been abusive parents - and I'd venture more so in the past than there are in today's US. Although divorce rates are up, beleive me, a horrid marriage that includes an abusive, self-obsessed parent is no better (and I'd say, probably worse, based upon my own expereinces) than a divorce. And so on, for every circumstance you cited above - in the end, all of those circumstances, plus a passel of others you didn't specifically list, are not "causes". Depending upon the attitudes/beliefs of the individual, and that individual's social environment, one person's challenge, and even inspiration, is another person's lame excuse. And this excuse-making is taught, or maybe even passed along genetically for all I know, to people's offspring, where the trait seems to end up becoming amplified due to the material spoiling of children combined with parents who are too busy whining about their idiotic so-called "inner child" to have much, if any, emotional investment in, or emotional ties with, their *real* children.
The problem is that current society - and by that, I mean, individuals behaving as a collective - places a *far* higher value upon verbiage than on action, a *far* higher value upon the mere appearance of wealth, achievement, action, *and* personal responsibility, than upon the actualities of any of those things.
There are a great many people who achieved things *despite* external attempts to turn them into inept, unproductive whiners. The thing is that they don't sit around, well, whining about their own tragedies - that is not how one achieves anything. One achieves by *doing*. So what we end up hearing is all the whiners.

As above. America de-evolved from "the land of the brave" to "the land of the blobs". People *talk* a lot about rights and freedoms, but in the end, it seems to mostly have shriveled down to one's "right" to be acble to choose to buy obscenely-huge road hogging vehicles and one's "freedom" shovel food into one's mouth until one can't even get out of bed to go to the fridge (or toilet or bathtub).
Increasingly, it's all about excuses and blither and having stuff (earned or stolen doesn't matter any more), rather than "unimpressive" things like personal character and ethics. You can make you list of circumstances as long as you like, but in the end, as above, the list means nothing, because it's one's attitudes/beliefs that makes one see those circumstances either as challenges to overcome (even opportunities!), or as excuses for doing as little as one possibly can get away with.
And, BTW, that is *far* different from recognizing the fact that there *is* a lot of bad sh*t that happens and sometimes people do need help learning to get around it and be happier and more productive. Been there, done that. But it is also a fact that nobody can *make* another person well and happy - treatment is futile if the person doesn't want to improve.
IMO, it's time that society/culture/people in general spent less time suckling those who *choose* to be permanent infants, and do more to help people who want to overcome adversity - and give more respect to those who do so.
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