Oldest arcchitecture


What do you think the oldest architecture in the UK would be? I don't mean old stone huts built by peasants/farmers in ancient times; but buildings designed by architects - such as churches etc.
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stone henge took "design", as did the fighres along the channel. Perhaps you are interested in the begining of formal study or of registration or first use of the title? TB
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And it shows up in the history books. I even have on it's on the back of (so too Veirzenheiligen [sp?]). But it ain't no building.
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You'd have to be more clear what you mean by "architect" as the profession hasn't been over the centuries.
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On 04 May 2005, Margret wrote

If one puts aside pre-historic creations -- the genesis of which we know little about -- Roman buildings of c.100-400 has to count as "designed by architects".
--
Cheers, Harvey
Architectural and topographical historian
  Click to see the full signature.
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Harvey Van Sickle wrote:

Fuzzy memory from Architectural History class but wasn't Imhotep the first 'recorded' architect? Circa 2000 BC or thereabouts.
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Sorry, missed the part about in the UK......
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Imhotep went to the UK on annual leave, liked it so much that he stayed & set up a thriving Architectural practice.
Demand for his innovative designs meant a worldwide network of ofiices. The Athens office started using a runner to send mesages to the Sparta office and before long everyone was using this igh-speed comms network.. Forrest Gump was a late birth.
All went well until the Emporer-in-waiting started publicly harping back to the architectural styles of the 'old days'.
The rest is history.....
;-)
Cheers DBM PS If enough people read this and pass it on ("I read it on the web, it must be true") we can rewrite history. <<<GGGG>>>
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(comments from the master are below)
DBM wrote:

stayed
ofiices.
Sparta
it
My dear DBM..... I like your style!
But you managed to leave out some critical information regarding the career of Imhotep, the first architect for whom we have a name. Please edit your archives as follows:
Actually, "Im Ho Tep" is a bad Egyptian transcription of the original Irish "Imh O'Tep" ...meaning "Young god who drinks wisdom from the tap."
As anyone knows, the true source of all architecture is Ireland....particularly the west....where my ancestors traveled by skin boat to teach the world how to build in a way that transcended mere construction into the realm of poetry. My kinsman continue to practice the sacred rites in which they gather in groups to drink the sacred "whiskey" which is the source of all worthwhile inspiration. In fact, one branch of my ancient Gaelic family traveled to Mesoamerica where they taught their secrets to the Toltec priests. Their sacred leader, whom they mis-named "Quetzalcoatal" was actually an itinerant Irish poet/architect whose real name was "Ketselc O'Atl." Any anthropologist knows that a famous paleolithic weapon was named after his family.
My own ancestors carried both civilization and whiskey to the northern regions of Mexico which are currently known as "Texas."
There is no charge for my historical consultation.
Christopher
Egan/Martinez design San Antonio, Texas y Mexico City
www.egan-martinez.com
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There were three men, an American, a Frenchman and a (insert your favorite ethnic group here) traveling the jungles of Africa on Safari. As they're cutting their way through, they start hearing a low rhythmic noise. The noise gets louder and louder and louder. Soon they are able to make out the chant...
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
WE'RE GOING TO KILL YOU. WE'RE GOING TO SKIN YOU. WE'LL USE YOUR SKINS FOR CANOES.
The next thing they know they're hanging from longs being carried back to the village.
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
As they arrive, the entire village erupts in the chant. The three men are cut down and tied to stakes. There's a large cauldron with a roaring fire underneath it.
One of the villagers comes forth and says "We're civilized savages...we'll let you choose your means of death." The three men realize there is no hope.
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
The American says "Shoot me in the head with my gun." As the village executioner raises the gun, the American shouts "We're number one!" BANG!
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
The Frenchman says "Cut my head off with my machete." The sword is raised..."Viva la France!" WHOP!
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
The (insert your favorite ethnic group here) says "Give me a fork." "A fork?" "Yes, Give me a fork!"
We're going to kill you. We're going to skin you. We'll use your skins for canoes.
He then takes the fork and starts stabbing himself in the chest repeatedly...
"The hell with your damn canoes!"
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Thank you as always for your observations!!!!
Hmmmm..... I don't think my Irish ancestors used forks....to French, you know!
Christopher
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snipped-for-privacy@egan-martinez.com wrote:

"freedom forks" ???
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snipped-for-privacy@egan-martinez.com wrote:

web,
Please
skin
practice
anthropologist
northern
Hi Christopher,
As the skin boats drifted south along the west coast of Ireland, utilising the Gulf Stream, your ancestors carefully charted the coastal features in anticipation of King Philip of Spain paying them in gold. Unfortunately the payment never happened and the demise of the Spanish Armada would follow.
Down at the bottom end of the UK they were hit by an Atlantic storm which blew them eastwards. When they finally reached land they were down to their last few potatoes. The locals were sympathetic to their plight and showed them how to fry up their potatoes.
Rested, the intrepid adventurers then explored further upstream where they can across a grand boulevard. Taking an early morning stroll to the top of the boulevard they were struck by the significance of the site through the golden rays of the sunrise. They considered how an imposing three columned structure would frame the views. The discussed the practicalities of another site they could see as the whether at tower would be fitting. There is no record of the outcome.
They then cruised back to the coast to farewell their new found friends before setting off west. The one thing that had been bugging them was how the locals had a great deal of difficulty pronouncing "Imh O'Tep". They came to the conclusion that they needed a universal language that anyone could understand.
"We'll be known as the McDonald's from now on" they cried.
And the rest is history...........
Cheers DBM
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My dear Margret...
I have responded below in a facetious manner.
Now I would like to respond to your question more seriously.
Others have already responded that the architectural tradition exemplified by Stonehenge (in its four stages of development) is universally recognized as one of the early great works of architecture. While I am not a historian, I have taught and studied architectural history and I believe that it is roughly contemporary with the Middle Kingdom of Egypt. I think that counts as architecture.
Others have also pointed out that...perhaps....the earliest "formal" examples of architecture in the area known as "England" are those built by Roman conquerors. (Personally I would give more credit to older indigenous forms than you seem willing to do.....more later)
Now I'd like to challenge the way you phrase your question. I assume that you are a well-intentioned person with a simple curiosity, Therefore I will respond in a friendly manner.
The fact is that "architecture" ...especially in its most "elevated" and 'honorific" forms..... is the true and honest manifestation of how a particular culture has chosen to build in response to place, time, technology and culture. Actually, technology is merely one aspect of culture if you consider it from the anthropological sense. My point is really simple. Stop trying to look beyond the "indigenous" achitecture if you want to understand the "honorific" architecture of England or any other place.
For instance....it is well known that most of the pre-hispanic temples of Mesoamerica were built as small temple shelters on a great mound. Naturally you could talk about this from a purely formal approach...and the result would be merely formal observations. Or you could visit the Mexican states of Vercruz, Tabasco, Yucatan, and see that ...especially in the lower tidal flats.....the predominant way of building....from the pre-historic era until today....is to build on a mound....in order to avoid floodwaters. This means that for the earliest advanced civilizations of Mexico....in La Venta.....the natural way to build was to put a small house on a raised earthen mound. This forms the basis for what later civilizations would build at Teotihuacan, Tenochtitlan, Tula, Monte Alban, Chichen Itza and the rest.
In closing....I ask you to shift your focus to embrace and understand the "old stone huts built by peasants/farmers" and look there for the seeds of the profound architectures that would follow. Certainly, no Brit would accept the idea that only a bunch of marauding Italians could bring "architecture" to the British Isles!!!!
Remember the observation of Adolf Loos.... "the architect is a mason who speaks Latin"
Christopher Egan
Egan/Martinez design San Antonio, Texas y Mexico City
www.egan-martinez.com
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What an absolute load of crap. For insight into the nature of ancient architecture, including the various stone henges, see
http://home.iprimus.com.au/o8ty/introduction.htm
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Prelude to Aphrodite.
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Margret wrote:

mean
buildings
It depends what you think 'architecture' is. The term itself contains that 'archi' which originally means 'masterful' ('architect' meaning 'master mason'). If you give that any importance, then you need to look at masterfully done vernacular buildings as well as more 'formal' buildings, because 'masterfully done' implies significant design consideration of some sort.
And just to make matters worse, you're not limited to buildings either. Architecture can be applied to sculptural pieces as well.
The real problem is that the word 'architecture' has come too mean too many different aspects of buildings, building parts, building traditions, building styles, etc. which makes any technical discussion difficult unless you start with a clearer definition of what you mean.
(Architects are notoriusly bad writers, with Vitruvius being a prime example!)
Stonehenge would qualify as an old masterful work that blends vernacular/ indigenous with formal 'structure'. There are probably similar examples.....
http://www.britainexpress.com/History/prehistoric_monuments.htm
Marcello
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This derivation is not entirely incorrect. Our word architect derives from the Greek arxitekton, which is deemed to comprise the stem arxi = first or foremost, compounded with tekton = wall builder or mason. However, with Greek kappa (k) often confused with Greek xi (x), the most ancient of Greek peoples were the Arkadians (First-People), mentioned in the Iliad of Omeros, but who should not to be confused with the Axaians (Stag-People) who feature predominately in the Iliad. According to the ancient Greek writer Pavsanias, the ancient Arkadians built the first city the sun ever saw at Lukosovra (Wolf-Capital), located in the heart of the Peloponnese, from which all other Greeks learned how to build cities. To the Arkadians can be attributed many of the so-called Mycenaean fortresses built across southern Greece in the latter half of the second millennium BCE. Hence the term architect most probably originates as a guild of Arkadian builders or masons. The so-called Doric and Corinthian architectural styles were also developed by the Arkadians.

The various stone henges of Britain share many similarities with the so-called tholoi or beehive structures built across southern Greece by the Mycenaeans (Arkadians), whose rule extended over the length and breadth of the Mediterranean in the second millennium BCE, and probably included the coastal regions of northwest Europe. There is reason to believe the Mycenaeans got the tin to make their bronze from around Cornwall in southwest England.
http://home.iprimus.com.au/o8ty/proto-aeolic.htm
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