Nimrod

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[...]
It's certainly ingenious but not very convincing: e.g. Purcell, Vivaldi and Handel should surely be closer to Bach. Another way of judging "the likelihood of the same person liking both" might be to choose a CD at Amazon and see what others who bought it had also ordered. But that wouldn't throw up many "esoteric" recommendations, I assume.
Alan Jones
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"the Omrud"

I suppose.

Fair enough, because I have some concerns with categorizing music into genres.

Trio? I thought it sounded like way more than just 3 women.

Alas, I still listen to Severed Heads, but, like Windows XP to Linux, I want to slowly weaning myself away and towards other things like free music and getting back to electronic composing.

I like maybe one song, give or take-- with some exceptions-- from every act out there and that's about it. It's a good thing the internet's around.

I'll give it a check, thanks.

That's intriguing. I'll definitely look into it, thanks.
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["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.] Richard MacIntyre wrote:

What is "free music" in English usage?
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David the Ormud wrote: I found this yesterday - I have no idea how accurate this is, but I'm impressed by the interface: http://www.music-map.com/j-2e+s-2e+bach.html
It draws a map of items, with the distance between the items related to the likelihood of the same person liking both of them. So the map above has Bach in the centre and other composers, bands and artists clustered around. You can click on any of the other items to re- centre the map. It also does movies and books.
Interesting to look at, but I don't understand why the names never stop moving. They go away from the center, then start to move back, then away. Am I supposed to wait an hour for them to settle down?
-- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Richard Maurer wrote: [...]

Because some website builders haven't got the brain-power or the emotional intelligence to see the difference between the Internet and television. There's also the phenomenon many of us have witnessed of builders saying to other builders "Look at this!" instead of trying it out on real people in the target audience. Matter and manner, style and content, will always and in any medium be what we have to wrestle with: AUE would otherwise vanish without a trace.
--
Mike.



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Don wrote:

Glad you liked it; but I'm afraid I can't claim credit for coining the expression.
--
Mike.



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It's just part of the way in which sociologists/psychologists are currently defining "intelligence". I think what it's supposed to mean is that one has learned how to feel, recognize in others, and respond effectively/acceptably to, emotional stimuli, or something along those lines. I'm sure it's just a new phrase to describe a long-recognized phenomenon/trait, but I don't know (or at least, can't remember - same effect in the end) what it would have been called previously. It's like (if I can spell this right) "kinesthetic intelligence" - which used to just be called "being coordinated" or having a talent for sports ro dancing - physical ability. Now it's "kinesthetic intelligence".
HTH
--
- Kris M. Krieger

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The BBC reported a recent study which produced a lot of evidence of empathy in monkeys (or it might have been apes). If I can find a reference to this I'll post it here.
This US page summarizes a similar-sounding study: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyIdA80263 "A body language experiment at Harvard reflects a shift in thinking among neuroscientists about how humans, primates and other mammals respond to emotion in others, from fear to joy."
This, rather older, article plays into it too, mentioning bonobos specifically: http://www.altruisticlove.org/docs/dewaal.html
Matti
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Based upon what (relatively little...) I know of biology, physiology, brian function and brain structure, autism (non-verbal thinking), the relationship between social interactions and survival of a species, and etc. and so on and so forth, I think it's a given that animals do experience emotions. I also think it's a given that many social animals can experience empathy. If neither were true, I think there would be no such thing as social groups in the animal world.
In terms of structure and what can be determined of function, the scientific data I've seen indicates that the difference between the human brain, and the brains of mammals and birds, is quantitative, not qualitative.
Of course, there is also "subjective experience" - meaning, human-animal interactions occurring in non-controlled conditions, i.e. daily life. Some researchers maintain that scientific inquiry must, to be considered science, occur in controlled situations, and reject what is called, in scientific circles, "anecdotal evidence", because much of it is unreliable, since humans project onto animals their own desires and traits. OTOH, I do think that there are stable, rational people who *can* offer reliable observations, and that this sort of data should be considered.
Another factor that influences my own thinking, and the thinking of at least some researchers, is that, even when dealing with other humans, we can only take them "at their word", for "face value", IOW, we're not psychic and we have no way of proving, of actually determining, anyone else's emotional state, especially since humans also have developed the capacity to lie - in essence, to act. It therefore seems to be just as "unscientific" to claim that humans have emotions, as it is to claim that animals have emotions. Given that the brain structures are so similar, and that the neurological functions, right down the to neurochemicals and their measureable response to physiological states (such as the release of adrenaline in stress situations), it seems unreasonable, and unscientific, to suggest that humans are "somehow" qualitatively different.
--
- Kris M. Krieger

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wrote:

An oxymoron, all right.
--
Charles Riggs

There are no accented letters in my email address
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Or, how about, since it's a database open to public entries, people are online and making entries, whcih change the numbers, and therefore the positions...

--
- Kris M. Krieger

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David the Ormud wrote: I found this yesterday - I have no idea how accurate this is, but I'm impressed by the interface: http://www.music-map.com/j-2e+s-2e+bach.html
It draws a map of items, with the distance between the items related to the likelihood of the same person liking both of them. So the map above has Bach in the centre and other composers, bands and artists clustered around. You can click on any of the other items to re- centre the map. It also does movies and books.
Richard Maurer wrote: Interesting to look at, but I don't understand why the names never stop moving. They go away from the center, then start to move back, then away. Am I supposed to wait an hour for them to settle down?
Or is it supposed to be a moving 3D display with the names always facing forward? And no controls for adjusting the view? (I have old browsers so may be missing some features.)
-- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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Richard Maurer wrote:

I'd imagine the movement was done intentionally, to make things more "interesting" than a static display.
Notan
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I get about three seconds of movement away from the center into rough positions, and then the names just "jiggle" a bit, never crossing one another and never really moving much relative to one another. What's (almost certainly) going on is a method called "force-directed placement" or "graph relaxation". You figure out how far apart you want each pair of nodes to be and model a spring (that can stretch and compress) of that length between them. You put all of the nodes down on the graph somewhere. (In this case everybody goes in the center.) Then you model the physics of the system, to see where the nodes would wind up. It's not uncommon for the result to wind up with little orbits like what's shown here, although typically people cut the algorithm off after it seems to be reasonably stable.
--
Evan Kirshenbaum +------------------------------------
HP Laboratories |People think it must be fun to be a
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Richard Maurer wrote: Interesting to look at, but I don't understand why the names never stop moving. They go away from the center, then start to move back, then away. Am I supposed to wait an hour for them to settle down?
Evan Kirshenbaum wrote: I get about three seconds of movement away from the center into rough positions, and then the names just "jiggle" a bit, never crossing one another and never really moving much relative to one another. What's (almost certainly) going on is a method called "force-directed placement" or "graph relaxation". You figure out how far apart you want each pair of nodes to be and model a spring (that can stretch and compress) of that length between them. You put all of the nodes down on the graph somewhere. (In this case everybody goes in the center.) Then you model the physics of the system, to see where the nodes would wind up. It's not uncommon for the result to wind up with little orbits like what's shown here, although typically people cut the algorithm off after it seems to be reasonably stable.
Thank you. It must have something to do with a small pipe or my once powerful 133 megahertz machine no longer being mega enough.
133 not enough! Why, I remember a time when we were lucky to have one megahertz... and a simple addition would have to walk three cycles uphill in the snow to the accumulator and then three more cycles uphill to a temporary resting place.
-- --------------------------------------------- Richard Maurer To reply, remove half Sunnyvale, California of a homonym of a synonym for also. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- [subthread of Nimrod]
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On 11 May 2005, the Omrud wrote

It's an extremely interesting idea.
I didn't explore whether it explains how it maps -- but, like you, I'm not sure of the accuracy. (It's a bit odd, to me, that places Brahms and Bach a good deal closer to Chopin than it does Mendelssohn...and they dropped an "s" from the latter's name....)
Neat idea, though.
--
Cheers, Harvey

Canada for 30 years; S England since 1982.
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["Followup-To:" header set to alt.usage.english.] Harvey Van Sickle wrote:

I tried it for several jazz musicians... for Charlie Parker it gave reasonable results; for a few others it didn't seem to know much about them... then I tried Joe Henderson and it has Violent Femmes as the closest node, which is rather ridiculous (NTTAWWVF) (is there some other Joe Henderson out there?).
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On 12 May 2005, Don wrote

There are some odd things going on in there.
My free (5-artist) "track where they're performing" at www.pollstar.com -- now, there's an *extremely* useful site -- includes John Prine, Dr John, Randy Newman and Don McLean. (So sue me.)
If you centre on any of those guys, *none* of the others appear on the map; I wouldn't have thought that including those four on the same list of "concerts I'd go to" is somehow perverse; it makes sense to me, even if it doesn't to that site's mapping algorithm.
--
Cheers, Harvey

Canada for 30 years; S England since 1982.
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Given to masses orbiting each other their given location at any given time can be calculated. Given three, we don't yet know how. To figure it out, it has to be done iteratively through time from a known starting condition.
This should be similar. Yes, there is a stable solution (there may be more than one). But since they all don't get to act simultaneously in real time, any given artist has to move to where it THINKS it will be happy. When it gets there it may find that something else has moved a little too close. So next time it tries to take a step away. But when it does that, everybody else nearby gets changed... and they danced.
This should happen if they all figure out where they are going to go next then time ticks and they all move at the same time or if (as it appears here) each artist calculates then moves at once then the next artist is moved to.
Not uncommon problem. Common solutions might be "if a step is smaller than LIMIT then don't bother moving" or "if after a certain time you haven't moved further than n from your average position over that time don't bother moving."
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[ ... ]

Fun link ;) !
I think it's accuracy is based upon what people enter. For example, there was no entry for "Sahdowfax". But, as enter it, and enter artists whosework I enjoy, and then respond the recommendations, I think all of that gets added to the map. There is probably a numerical value associated with how many times people click on any artist's name plus their reponse to the recommendations.
Since it's statistical, it depends upon the numbers of the respondents. SO, the more people who learn about it and respond to it, the more accurate it can become (if, that is, matters of taste can be "accurate"...)

Cool ;) !
--
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