NASA's New 'Lesson' from Space

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: made the phosphor on my monitor glow in :> such a way as to indicate that: :>> :>>Be that as it may, these guys make odds that generally win for themselves. :>>My (uninformed) sense is that shuttle missions have been meeting with more :>>regular damage requiring repairs or burials than when the vehicles were :>>new. :>>Most of them have around the same mileage, don't they? :>> :> :> No, they haven't. It's actually less, but they can't reduce it to :> zero. The only reason that it seems like more now is because we're :> paying a lot more attention to it than we used to. :> :> And the "mileage" of the orbiters is irrelevant. The problem is :> caused by the external tanks, which are new every flight, since they :> must be expended. : :What about the tiles? :
What about them? They're inspected after every flight and any that show any wear are replaced.
There's never been an issue due to 'tile wear'.
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: :> :> There's never been an issue due to 'tile wear'. :> : :Has it been shown that the stuff that causes faults in the exterior, like :the current incident for example, NOT been tiles? :
Of course it has! Jesus, what ignorant rock do you hide under?
The 'stuff' isn't tiles. It's foam off the external tank. This has been known for years. Where have you been?
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: :> :> :> :> There's never been an issue due to 'tile wear'. :> :> :> : :> :Has it been shown that the stuff that causes faults in the exterior, like :> :the current incident for example, NOT been tiles? :> : :> :> Of course it has! Jesus, what ignorant rock do you hide under? :> :> The 'stuff' isn't tiles. It's foam off the external tank. This has :> been known for years. Where have you been? : :It was a simple yes or no question. :
Simple question from a simple source, I guess...
: :But you decided to get emotional about it. :
Don't be a bigger idiot than you already have shown yourself. I've been on Usenet for decades. A bit late to get 'emotional' now.
Just another 'Stupid Usenet Tricks 101' tactic on your part - "When you're at a loss, accuse the other guy of emotionalism or losing his temper"...
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: :> :> :> :> :> :> There's never been an issue due to 'tile wear'. :> :> :> :> :> : :> :> :Has it been shown that the stuff that causes faults in the exterior, :> like :> :> :the current incident for example, NOT been tiles? :> :> : :> :> :> :> Of course it has! Jesus, what ignorant rock do you hide under? :> :> :> :> The 'stuff' isn't tiles. It's foam off the external tank. This has :> :> been known for years. Where have you been? :> : :> :It was a simple yes or no question. :> : :> :> Simple question from a simple source, I guess... :> :> : :> :But you decided to get emotional about it. :> : :> :> Don't be a bigger idiot than you already have shown yourself. I've :> been on Usenet for decades. A bit late to get 'emotional' now. : :Then you should know better, shouldn't you? : :> Just another 'Stupid Usenet Tricks 101' tactic on your part - "When :> you're at a loss, accuse the other guy of emotionalism or losing his :> temper"... : :Is this the part where you call me a dictator in 40's Germany? :
No, this is the part where I point out that you're a waste of electrons with no redeeming content.
<plonk>
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: :> Just another 'Stupid Usenet Tricks 101' tactic on your part : :URL? :
Duke of?
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: made the phosphor on my monitor glow in :>> such a way as to indicate that: :>>> :>>>Be that as it may, these guys make odds that generally win for :>>>themselves. :>>>My (uninformed) sense is that shuttle missions have been meeting with :>>>more :>>>regular damage requiring repairs or burials than when the vehicles were :>>>new. :>>>Most of them have around the same mileage, don't they? :>> :>> No, they haven't. It's actually less, but they can't reduce it to :>> zero. The only reason that it seems like more now is because we're :>> paying a lot more attention to it than we used to. :>> :>> And the "mileage" of the orbiters is irrelevant. The problem is :>> caused by the external tanks, which are new every flight, since they :>> must be expended. :>> :> :> What about the tiles? :> : :What about the *stuff* that keeps coming off and effecting the tiles? :
That 'stuff' is new with every flight. Any tiles that take damage are replaced with new ones after every flight.
So tell us again how 'mileage' on the Shuttle somehow matters...
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: made the phosphor on my monitor glow in :> :>> such a way as to indicate that: :> :>>> :> :>>>Be that as it may, these guys make odds that generally win for :> :>>>themselves. :> :>>>My (uninformed) sense is that shuttle missions have been meeting with :> :>>>more :> :>>>regular damage requiring repairs or burials than when the vehicles were :> :>>>new. :> :>>>Most of them have around the same mileage, don't they? :> :>> :> :>> No, they haven't. It's actually less, but they can't reduce it to :> :>> zero. The only reason that it seems like more now is because we're :> :>> paying a lot more attention to it than we used to. :> :>> :> :>> And the "mileage" of the orbiters is irrelevant. The problem is :> :>> caused by the external tanks, which are new every flight, since they :> :>> must be expended. :> :>> :> :> :> :> What about the tiles? :> :> :> : :> :What about the *stuff* that keeps coming off and effecting the tiles? :> : :> :> That 'stuff' is new with every flight. Any tiles that take damage are :> replaced with new ones after every flight. :> :> So tell us again how 'mileage' on the Shuttle somehow matters... : :I never mentioned *mileage*. :
So you merely took the side of the guy who did.
Same difference...
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: made the phosphor on my monitor glow :> in :> :> :>> such a way as to indicate that: :> :> :>>> :> :> :>>>Be that as it may, these guys make odds that generally win for :> :> :>>>themselves. :> :> :>>>My (uninformed) sense is that shuttle missions have been meeting :> with :> :> :>>>more :> :> :>>>regular damage requiring repairs or burials than when the vehicles :> were :> :> :>>>new. :> :> :>>>Most of them have around the same mileage, don't they? :> :> :>> :> :> :>> No, they haven't. It's actually less, but they can't reduce it to :> :> :>> zero. The only reason that it seems like more now is because we're :> :> :>> paying a lot more attention to it than we used to. :> :> :>> :> :> :>> And the "mileage" of the orbiters is irrelevant. The problem is :> :> :>> caused by the external tanks, which are new every flight, since :> they :> :> :>> must be expended. :> :> :>> :> :> :> :> :> :> What about the tiles? :> :> :> :> :> : :> :> :What about the *stuff* that keeps coming off and effecting the tiles? :> :> : :> :> :> :> That 'stuff' is new with every flight. Any tiles that take damage are :> :> replaced with new ones after every flight. :> :> :> :> So tell us again how 'mileage' on the Shuttle somehow matters... :> : :> :I never mentioned *mileage*. :> : :> :> So you merely took the side of the guy who did. : :Just like YOU did. :
Well, no. You don't read very well, do you?
: :> Same difference... : :Duh. :
Brightest thing you've said so far...
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wrote:

It is foam insulation from the External Tank. This was widely reported following the Columbia accident in 2003.
NASA has already reduced foam shedding from the External Tank by well over 90% since Columbia. The places where foam has been falling off the worst are the nooks and crannies, the little bumps and crevaces in the structure of the Tank that are hard to model in a computer... the bipod ramp lost foam that caused the Columbia accident. Return to Flight lost a big chunk of the PAL ramp but caused no damage. NASA has been working on changing the Ice/Frost Ramps. The support brackets on the Liquid Oxygen feed line have caused problems on the last two flights.
A major impact on the tiles is going to cause damage. It doesn't matter if it is an aging tile from 1984 or one factory-fresh.
Brian
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 14:06:55 -0400, "Michael Bulatovich"

Odds are there won't be another fatality. The odds are a little less encouraging that they'll actually get all 14 in before the end of 2010.
Brian
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On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:00:56 -0600, "Secretia Green"

Its the station they repaired. The station has been up there since 1998 and the part they replaced has been up there since October 2000. When was the last time you took your car in for servicing?
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wrote:

Sorry my mistake. That should have read: Good thing the astronauts are keeping the station in good repair, so they can go up again...and repair it.

8/3/07
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 08:45:21 -0600, "Secretia Green"

There really haven't been an outrageous number of repairs on the station. It's not like every mission to the Station is going up just to fix something that broke, most of the spacewalks have been to install new hardware (like the S5 Truss on this mission), hook up cables, that sort of thing.
The Control Moment Gyros like the one (of four) replaced this week have been particularly problematical, but they're high speed gyros that have been spinning more or less constantly since 2000, and NASA always knew they'd have to replace them from time to time (that's why they're relatively easy to get to and replace.) Parts that run all the time will eventually wear out. There's nothing magical about spaceflight that gets around this fact of life.
Brian
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:51:17 -0400, in a place far, far away, "Don"
such a way as to indicate that:

To first order, zero.
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:On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 21:00:56 -0600, "Secretia Green"
: :>Good thing the astronauts are keeping the shuttle in good repair, so they :>can go up again....and repair it. : :Its the station they repaired. The station has been up there since :1998 and the part they replaced has been up there since October 2000. :When was the last time you took your car in for servicing? :
ISS isn't a car. It's a house. When was the last time you had to call in a repair crew to replace a part of your house that was only 7 years old?
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:35:35 -0700, Fred J. McCall

You never had to work on your house in seven years? Where do you live and how can I get one like it? Home Depot and Lowe's must really hate whoever built your house!
Brian
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:On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 10:35:35 -0700, Fred J. McCall
: : :>ISS isn't a car. It's a house. When was the last time you had to :>call in a repair crew to replace a part of your house that was only 7 :>years old? : :You never had to work on your house in seven years? Where do you live :and how can I get one like it? Home Depot and Lowe's must really hate :whoever built your house! :
Pretty much not, yeah. I think the first 7 years ought to be pretty damned much 'no care required'. We're not talking about a 30 year old house here. ISS is *NEW*.
The only 'work' I've had done other than 'trim the trees' is to put more refrigerant in the air conditioner. I haven't had to call anyone in to replace pieces, particularly pieces that are only 7 years old.
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Only partially. The status quo is that NASA gets the statellite up there and NOAA operates it (or something like that, I'm probably ignorant/oversimplifying on the details). See for example: http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/noaa-n/main/index.html http://www.publicaffairs.noaa.gov/releases2007/aug07/noaa07-r309.html
Maybe it would be good if NASA weren't involved, but that kind of depends on how equipped NOAA is to do a relatively big and complex procurement. Just because some of us have complaints about the NASA-contractor-Congress iron triangle doesn't automatically mean the NOAA-contractor-Congress triangle would be better.
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wrote:

That our astronauts and spendy shuttles are totally expendable. They should just thank their lucky stars that none of our ABLs are allowed to be running through those R&D trials, as required per DoD field testing in order to qualify for their next level of funding.
However, any extended EVAs are also damn risky business, whereas at least our frail DNA isn't a happy camper to all of that raw solar and moon contributed radiation, not to mention their having to avoid that nasty Van Allen SAA contour that's getting extremely large.
Perhaps of whatever's on the backside of that broken set of thermal tiles isn't all that mission critical. - Brad Guth
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