If Hitler Approached You...

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How broke and hungry would I be at the time?

Too bad, no pictures.
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Warm Worm wrote:

The problem with these types of questions is that if you're asking it from the point of view of "being in the period", then we don't have the hindsight to know.
But, having said that, if I get to be the person I am, just a German, then I'd have seen the writing on the wall and bailed, so I probably wouldn't be around for him to have asked...
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3D Peruna wrote:

So on the one hand you don't have the hindsight to know, and yet on the other you'd have seen the writing on the wall and bailed?
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Clearly, at the time ugly ass pseudo Roman bombast was the wave of the future. Who the heck WOULDN'T want their portfolio associated with it.
Witness this thing going in up the road
http://www.framinghamnatickretail.com/wonderbread/extras/renderings/pressrender1.jpg
It's a rectilinear box with a Gehry bunting.
At least a person could join the Nazi Architecture bandwagon and build honestly.
Some quotes from the Wiki
- Many Nazi buildings were stages for communal activity
That sounds like something most modern intellectuals can get in to
- This was an attempt to link the German people back to both their history and their land.
The National Historic Trust tossed with an egalitarian appreciation of the "red neck." The latter as opposed to an elitist prejudice which is exactly equivalent to racism. In short, Nazi Architecture was a better human than 21st C American leftists.
- arrested in the world of his youth: the world of 1880 to 1910, which stamped its imprint on his artistic taste as on his political and ideological conceptions
Caught up in the foolish idealism of his youth. Again, the modern American left should be well able to relate.
- Most Nazi Architecture was neither novel in style nor concept; it was not supposed to be. Even a cursory inspection of what was intended for Berlin finds analogies all over the world. Long boulevards with important buildings along them can be found in the grid pattern road structures of Washington and New York, the Mall and Whitehall in London, and the boulevards of Paris. Large domes can be found on the buildings of the Mughal Empire of India, the Capitol in Washington, the Pantheon and Basilica di San Pietro in Rome.
Formal architectural mechanisms are not style. I could argue that they are concept. More to the point, since specific examples are used, they are, in those contexts for the reasons they appear in said, concept. In short, big straight roads are grand and glorify the state no matter where you go, why try something different? The urge to make new things with little regard to their effectiveness is more a preoccupation of now.
- This confuses the Nazi dislike of certain styles like the Bauhaus with a blanket dislike of all modern styles. This was based mainly on what the Bauhaus and others were seen as representing,
The wiki doesn't mention it, but it is well on record that the Bauhaus claimed to and was seen as representing socialism. While National Socialism had "socialism" in its name, it (again, according to wikipedia) stopped being socialist in practice when it became Hitlerian in nature. My observation is that the Nazis tended to specify their hatred towards "Bolshevism."
- To criticize Speer's architectural style is to criticise buildings being built at the same time all over the world.
See, who WOULDN'T want to be associated with that? I'll repeat - the urge to make new things with little regard to their effectiveness is more a preoccupation of now.
- but as symbols of a new Germany
The Constitution is a living document. I am the decider. A New American Century A New World Order We have to scorn sprawl and embrace New Urbanism Progressive [sic]
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Warm Worm wrote:

There was a documentation on German TV about Albert Speer. He appeared to be just like many other architects: ambituous and dedicated to some luxury. Watching the story of his life...I couldn't tell what I would do in this situation...but then, considering my own attitude...I think I would stick to Mies :-)
Marianne
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Marianne Bloss wrote:

Paul (3D Peruna) does have a point about the retrospective nature of the question. For me, it might be a question of how much I knew about the client at the time.

Ah yes, Mies...
Your response about him, and his history, as well as the responses of the rest of this thread spawns some reflection about influence; affluence, or lack thereof; personal convictions and what history eventually reads as.
"After 1933, Nazi political pressure soon forced Mies to close the government-financed school, a victim of its previous association with socialism, communism, and other progressive ideologies. He built very little in these years (one built commission was Philip Johnson's New York apartment); his style was rejected by the Nazis as not 'German' in character. Frustrated and unhappy, he left his homeland reluctantly in 1937 as he saw his opportunity for any future building commissions vanish..." -- Wikipedia.org
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Seor Popcorn-Coconut wrote:

True, and I also appreciate the other views, but maybe it's too hypothetic a question.
Marianne

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It comes very close to being a troll, as it approaches Godwin's Law.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
--


MichaelB
www.michaelbulatovich.ca
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Michael Bulatovich wrote:

:-))
Well, I personally wouldn't go further than saying that the original question is quite away from reality, but it has been discussed in a distinguished way.
As for your point of view, I am with you :-)
Marianne
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"Godwin's Law does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda or other mainstays of the Nazi regime..." [ie., architecture, architects and architectural/historical/moral/ ethical/etc. associations/considerations] "...Instead, it applies to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis. However, Godwin's Law can itself also be abused, as a distraction or diversion, to fallaciously miscast an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
Nevertheless, Michael, please feel free to swap Hitler for any other preferred time and character of dubious action and intent if it suits you to do so, and perhaps you will feel more comfortable with the OP as being fair, reasonable or valid, or at least less Godwin's-Law- like. :)
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"Godwin's Law does not apply to discussions directly addressing genocide, propaganda or other mainstays of the Nazi regime..." [ie., architecture, architects and architectural/historical/moral/ ethical/etc. associations/considerations]
You added that "IE"!
"...Instead, it applies to inappropriate, inordinate, or hyperbolic comparisons of other situations (or one's opponent) with Hitler or Nazis. However, Godwin's Law can itself also be abused, as a distraction or diversion, to fallaciously miscast an opponent's argument as hyperbole, especially if the comparisons made by the argument are actually appropriate." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_Law
Nevertheless, Michael, please feel free to swap Hitler for any other preferred time and character of dubious action and intent if it suits you to do so, and perhaps you will feel more comfortable with the OP as being fair, reasonable or valid, or at least less Godwin's-Law- like. :)
That's ok, my response would probably be the same as before: "How hungry and broke am I?"
Ask me about people who take 90 days to pay, and I'd have a different reaction.
--


MichaelB
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Fair enough.
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If President George W. Bush... If Senator Clinton... If your state's governor... If your town's mayor... If the busybody next door...

The question is almost completely bizarre. My portfolio would contain what I put in it. My reputation would contain some of what other people put in it. And there's why it's only "almost". Some people would say "Gruhn built something for a guy who had a lot of stark rectilinear monumental neo-Roman stuff built, therefore Gruhn's work must be SRMNR." These people are idiots. If they control my well being it may well do to pander to them. Perhaps they could be shown my portfolio. If they don't control my well being they can be ignored.
If one doesn't feel competent to do ones best to satisfy the client's needs and desires and to be a client advocate in the construction process then clearly that one should politely decline the commission.
If one feels that architectural practice is about changing the world to suit ones own twisted views rather than about getting the clients needs and desires satisfied to the best of ones abilities then clearly that one should politely decline any commission.
What I most like about that last one is that some people will say "but he said Hitler, this is an ethics issue!" Yes, yes it is.
How many people who wouldn't build a "death camp" would gladly build a new NEA office?
Can you think of a way to phrase the question so that it relates to Aldo Rossi instead of Albert Speer? How does that change the nature of the question? Can you imagine why I might chose Rossi in particular?
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LOL
Ideally, perhaps, but we both know that's not what actually occurs, right? The "bizarre" factors in.

I guess we find that out through these kinds of bizarre questions. :)

You tell me.
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Stark stark stark rationalist work based on Roman forms. Not known for being a "bad" person.
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gruhn wrote:

So are you saying that you'd work for Hitler then, designing his death camps (to place in your portfolio), because it's about the architecture, not the client?
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I'm saying people are far too willing to make stuff up rather than just read what's in front of them. Hitler threads are always a great place to watch it in action. I bet you couldn't get a useful discussion going about the shape of his mustache.
There's this problem people have that if any statement they perceive as being within Hitler's orbit isn't surrounded by a bulwark of emphatic Hitler bashing then that statement must be an attack on all that is good and true and right and just and pure and the speaker must be persecuted for their supposed evils. Have fun looking for my inner neo-Nazi, my closeted anti-semite... You don't need me for that game, it's all in your head.
Make up statements for me to utter, then hate me for them. But while you're doing it, remember that YOU are the one who thought of those ideas, not me. Wonder why your mind is so ready to create those ideas.
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Ok I think I see what you're saying now, and agree that it can happen, that a negative aura surrounding a subject can override attempts at its objective discussion. But my OP was less concerned with the shape of his mustache, but rather, if recalled, what you would do if you were a "barber and he came up to you one day for a shave and a hair-cut".
I think I was concerned with when or where would some of us draw the line (if anywhere) as to where we don't do business for someone.
What if you were a medical researcher or nuclear-scientist in the original-post scenerio?

I spoke recently with someone who happens to like some elements of Nazi fashion, and that's fine. I hear their boots were quite nice. Metaphorically-speaking, am I to presume you have a concern for how you'll be seen, that you're "unable or unwilling to put them on"?
Here're the boots again:
"So are you saying that you'd work for Hitler then, designing his death camps (to place in your portfolio), because it's about the architecture, not the client?"
What size are you?

I think George Orwell and Charlie Chaplin both had a similar 'stache.
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No.
But don't read into that everything you want me to be saying.
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