Who's the editor of the alt.architecture group? It seems that people talk more about subjects having little to do with architecture. What kind of architecture is the group supposed to discuss? The design- oriented kind, or what? Here are some of the less than entralling subjects:
I buyed me sum tomato-basil hummus. Folk songs of the far right wing Hummus is simpler than even making donuts Genuine Money Earn Every day Internet jobs for all. Earn Unlimited income.
What?
To steer the discussion in some more meaningful way for architects, here's my contribution:
What is the difference between folk and vernacular architecture? Are McMansions our culture's new vernacular? Is everyone familiar with the term "McMansion?"
How has the "one world, one culture" reality affected the traditions of local communities?
There is no "editor" for a newsgroup. I am the moderator. I must insist that you cease such attacks against the posters to this newsgroup. It is ynwarranted. Hummus is a vernacular food and addresses different cultures and their cooking traditions and thereby kitchen and restaurant design, folk songs often highlight a buildings acoustic properties, and income...well, I don't know what that one's about. Must have slipped by me.
Please refrain from disruptive posting or your posts will be deleted.
It's obvious you don't know your architecture:
It was being considered whether hummus would make a decent substitute for mortar or at the very least caulking
This one is obvious, as architecture has long been considered "frozen music".
If you want to understand architecture, you must start with something simpler. The quality of your cooking says a lot about your design and construction principles. Next time you consider a CM, ask him ot make you dinner first.
That one is just spam, have you NEVER been in a newsgroup before???
Sorry that one is a bit off-topic, we like to stay on tpoic in this newsgroup. You might find better answers over at alt.how.has.the.one.world.culture.reality.affected.the.traditions.of.local.communities. It's pretty busy in there though, your question might fall on deaf ears.
-- Edgar (that was supposed to be humorous, and this newsgroup is unmoderated, and we like it that way)
I don't know the ducts to which you refer, but I imagine that 7' isn't exactly best practice for spans of rated fire duct that can't be hung. My suggestion? A bridge made from heavy gauge steel studs and gwb. That's a guess without knowing what the heck you're talking about. Are you angry?
hmm, just responding in kind (my excuse for authoring two of the above threads)
I have a small library on folk vernacular architecture. The definition of vernacular architecture is the kind of architecture that people in a local with approximately the same cultural heritage have developed. Good vernacular architecture, in my opinion, solves local climatic and energy issues and expresses the culture visually in some uniform but evolving way. It sometiems presents a unique use of local materials.
Vernacular pertains to a level of do it yourself that still utilizes local expertise in craftsmanship, but does not necessarily presume the kind of formal architetural or engineering training that is generally presumptive of what we term architecture or engineering today.
That said, there are examples where traditional and vernacular architecture come together, ex. hiring a mimar (Islamic design builder) to design one of the coral mosques of Suakim. Local materials were used (coral blocks, similar to the prehistoric shell material in St. Augustine, Florida 16th c. buildling), mosques were designed but local people as home builders used the same material for residential housing, the material is beautiful in color and unique, the material used caused the local building to become atractions, the materials used were traditional building materials from the area that promoted cool, clean, low maintenance living and worshipping. Just a tiny example. It is always wonderful to discover some native/tribal/aboriginal/modern ordinary guy and gal/ way of solving a common problem. Shelter itself is a kind of local problem. It is wonderful when people express philosophical thought through decoration in some kind of local way and solve some kind of climatic issue at the same time, like the Russian or Scandanavian stove to heat an entire dwelling efficiently (and to use whole or large pieces of logs that burn slowly to ash in the process so less energy is used even preparing fuel).
I don't see discussing making one's own hummus (note that the guy who started the thread on tomato basil hummus didn't dare to post the actual ingredients of the stuff he bought...) is contrary to the discussion of good design. We choose to design what we do with our time and how we fuel everything from buildings to our own bodies. We can accept a developer McMansion, eat out and buy processed food, or we can design, collaborate in the designor or at least have imput into the needs that cause us to live live in what works and what we need while making sure that quality goes into our bodies. It's all related.
'Course, you might find somebody in here who is desperate to make a buck and design you a McMansion.
I'm sure no one on this forum has ever heard the term.....
communities?
People discuss that presumptive attitude here. Since you haven't been reading, how 'bout finding a forum that discusses the issues the way you expect?
How 'bout running me off while shootin' a shotgun into the sky? :) "Git outta here, you vermin'! Comin' 'round here stirring up stuff..." :)
If you consider your body within the realm of architecture, so be it. Did you consider a thesis on hummus in the built environment? Puh- leeze!
Look up the recent post by me on the subject. Generic "steel studs and GWB" prescriptions will not suffice. This is architecture. Let's get specific.
I'm not angry. I am mildly annoyed by your complaining about the group being OT, while obviously having an enormous theoretical axe to grind. If you want to promulgate your polemics, may I suggest that this isn't a very effective place to do it? Try a school. You're unlikely to convince anyone of anything, and there's only 6 of us here anyway, and we all work in the real world. Besides, my favorite groups are almost all OT...
Some guy going by the moniker of "Grand Tradition". It's even in his name. Every post seems to be a pitch for traditional architecture. You're like a bible-thumper in a brothel. Settle down and have a drink.
Then let's discuss things of mutual interest instead of chastising the group for having interests that don't dovetail with yours. (Note, the trad vs mod thing is 20 years tired for me.) Here's a story:
In 1990 I'm working for a traditionalist outfit. They get an office building client somehow (they're not known for this sort of stuff). I start the schematic design on the job. I drive around with the client as he points out buildings he likes. (He's very consistent: all sleek, green glass curtainwall buildings with few if any mullions exposed.) I get it. Client wants sleek, green glass building. I get to work on it.
The firm hires a humorless prig from another traditionalist firm with experience in this type of building. We're used to having fun at this office. I can't work with the pretentious putz, and the firm is obviously going to implode within months as the Grand Recession approaches, so I quit to do some public sector work. The firm contracts by 80%. They can the prig along with most everybody else. I worked for two years solid in public housing, doing mainly hirise stuff, and design my biggest building to date. All of it pragmatically modern.
Years later I'm back talking to the partner, and see a rendering of the most dreadful, plodding, dark, heavy, traditional office building I've seen in a while. (Week-old, soy-soaked polenta, if not, plainly, a turd.) I ask about the building. It's unbuilt. (Surprise!) I ask how it got to look like that when the client was pretty clear about what he wanted. The partner frowns at me. "Don't ask" is the answer.
There's a story about the world I live in. Now us about yours. Keep it interesting...no polemics....if you can.
So sue me for having an architectural preference! You have imagined me (I'm afraid) completely 180d from reality. I may have come on strong, but this IS an architectural newsgroup, supposedly.
I have a similar story to yours, Michael, except that it involves the entirety of my formal education, which was Mod. Everything traditional I've learned about architecture, other than the historian's cut-and-dry time line of events, is a product of my personal study. I've seen cities go down the tubes due to glass box syndrome (GBS?), as I'm sure you have; and I've also witnessed the sorriest revival of traditional architecture since revivals started happening (in my opinion). It's not the brightest day for architects, and quite frankly, I keep running into architects who ultimately don't care, including some of my classmates from college.
I sometimes ask them why they're so non-chalant, and they reply with the same stuff: "It's just my job." "The client made me do it." "What do you mean?" "I've got to put bread on the table." "Let's talk about something else."
I am definitely an advocate for traditional architecture, but ultimately I advocate GOOD architecture. Putting bread on the table doesn't usually produce good work. To those who I know who make that claim, I tell them to pull away for a while and do something else that "puts bread on the table." Overall, I get it (I think). There are a lot of architects out there; and just like any other profession, there are those that actually love what they do and excel, then there are those who do it for other reasons, who usually do not find that magical mix of circumstances required to do really well. I'll readily admit I'm not the brainiest architect of the lot, but I do love my profession- and I feel like cities, towns, villages, and families all depend on architects to make the world as livable as it can be.
Have you seen a new traditional building that exceeds the design success of a similar building erected 100 years ago? Have you seen a modern building that exceeds the design success of a similar building
80 years ago? I blame the laissez faire attitude of many architects today. I say get the f*ck off your asses and do something responsible next time someone wants to do something on the cheap!
American culture being despised around the world? McAnything, let alone McMansions? Buildings designed to fail after 20 years? Disposable culture is dispicable to me- it's just irresponsible. And the world (or at least the first world) can see the horrible direction the US has taken culturally over the last century. And please believe me: I don't want to return to the 1920's. I want 2007 to be the best that the US has ever known. Who will paint our murals, sculpt our bas reliefs, and plan our gardens in such a way that guides us forward while giving us hindsight after the last of the master craftsmen are gone? Are we going to import everything from other countries, including craftsmen, to the extent that we have to start all over again?
Enough for now. I've said too much already. Please proceed with the stoning and tarring and feathering.
It's _alternative_.architecture. Your alternative may be someone else's mainstream.
You're entitled to your own perceived or rehashed preconceived alternative. If someone buys your BS and your schematics, and you actually get to build your perceived alternative, or if you have already put up a couple examples for us to discuss, please let us know. I clicked on this group as a lark and rather enjoy it., so far.
There's this little matter of cost and commission and hubris and a numbing numbe of very practical issues. The present day cost of the trades and materials to construct that building are astronomical. There are few commissions on grand budgets.
I once went this lecture by an acting dean at a grad architecture school (flag me if you know him) accompanied by congratulatory sighs and hurrahs by his fawning grad students, some of whom were just hoping for the recommendation to someone somewhere for a job, any job, hopefully a lucratice job, dare they even hope for a job where someone actually would allow them to design?. One of his ideas had to do with not understanding the slightest bit about Islam but willing to embarrass himself about interesting things he was willing to do with Korans in a mosque of his imagination. Some people begged to differ, this being a public forum and he no longer being in his precious ari element. The next idea had to do with his concept of painting miles of reflective stuff on the surface of moon rock so everyone with a telescope could literally bask in his immense creativity. That's thinking outside the box! Until someone asked whether he should be allowed to denigrade vast acres of the universe with what possibly non peelable substance? I personally love dialogue.
The capstone of the night came not from dean but from his personal pet in a little session in which the grad students were supposed to express their architectural vision about how they conceived their practices. The little darling opined that he would personally not accept a commission for anything that he could not guarantee would stand for two centuries, anything else being beneath him.
I couldn't help but ask who he planned to bankroll this personal vision, and did this personal vision have any particular shape, material or form?
It's very easy to criticize and easy to pretend to set standards. It's harder to come up with ideas and solutions, set reasonable goals and standards, and still have people recognize something unique and worthy in your design. It is harder still to get the client to pop for 5% for design, outside or inside the box
There's no reason that a well maintained wood frame house can't last two centuries. There are plenty of them around New England and the rest of the world. That's how New Englanders view it - New England and the rest of the world. ;)
Down here, there are both kinds of termites as well as a couple kinds of carpenter ants and powder post beetles. Sure, your building can last two hundred years. But.....the maintenance on those boards can be daunting.
The fellow is correct. About 10 % posts are actually architecture. What I do is just scan some of the posts a little and if they are not architectural I close them out. Once in a while you might get a really good thread. He didn't do attacks (plural) he did it once. I have read this newsgroup for many years and seems to never change. Do a survey, ask how many posters are registered architects.
Depends on how much the ducts themselves can span, you tell me. Then I will tell you what to use and the spacing. You can try structural beams with designed penetration openings if your ducts can span 7 feet or longer.
He mentioned four different threads - three by regulars.
And...?
And...?
I prefer the title of Moderatus Unanimous, thank you very much.
How a particular newsgroup operates, and what the regulars choose to discuss is pretty much up to them, isn't it? Your crossposting of an existing thread to other newsgroups that have nothing to do with the original group/post is troubling. You mentioned that if the post was not architectural you closed it out. What prompted you to crosspost this particular one? Are you looking to publicize something, maybe garner support and "straighten" out a newsgroup you barely show up on? Usenet is either a sandbox, soapbox, or free-for-all, depending on how you look at it. If you want control, feel free to start your own web site or blog.
I don't mean to be overly harsh, but I don't understand what it is that you think you're trying to accomplish. I do know that - whatever it is - you're unlikely to achieve a favorable outcome if your proceed in this manner.
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